Understanding Range

[PKOttawa]

Since Tesla does guarantee the battery from degradation.. it would be useful to be able to measure it!

The range displayed is dependent on your driving so it would be good to have a standard way of measuring battery loss..

 

[captanzuelo]

But how old, how many miles did the MS have on it? Are we comparing apples to apples here? The MS may have a lot more miles and charge cycles on its battery and is better trained/tuned to its battery level and actual mileage. The MY on the other hand is very new and I assume a lot less miles and cycles on its battery than the MS you drove, so less in tune. Just a guess...

Good point. The MS did have a lot more miles at +20k compared to 5k on my MY. However, I have not seen any change in accuracy during this entire time. Worse yet, the battery has shown a degradation of 9%(Pre 2020.40) and still burns through 8 miles on a 5 mile trip.

 

[frankvb]

It seems posters in this thread are still thinking that the displayed range in miles is related to your own consumption. It isn't, it is simply based on the amount of kWh left and the EPA rating. So e.g. (with 326 miles EPA) and 50% charge, and no battery degradation, it will always show 163 miles. It doesn't matter if your average consumption is 200 or 400 Wh/m.

And it will show lower than 236 miles @ 100% if the BMS thinks there is less capacity in the battery.

That's exactly the reason why it makes IMHO more sense to just display the battery percentage instead.

 

[captanzuelo]

the displayed range...

is simply based on the amount of kWh left and the EPA rating.

This is exactly why it bugged me that the range shown on the MS was so accurate compared to our MYs. Its like Tesla did some funny business when doing the EPA tests. If they tested them more accurately, like the MS, then these Ys really should be marketed as 275 mile range cars. I would not be surprised if there is a future lawsuit in the works

 

[DanDi58]

Percentage and forget it.[/QUOTE

This is exactly why it bugged me that the range shown on the MS was so accurate compared to our MYs. Its like Tesla did some funny business when doing the EPA tests. If they tested them more accurately, like the MS, then these Ys really should be marketed as 275 mile range cars. I would not be surprised if there is a future lawsuit in the works

The EPA test is a joke, done on a dyno. That's the real reason the numbers don't match real-world range. They are simply a comparison point you can use as a relative guide across multiple vehicles. How Does The EPA Calculate Electric Car Range?.

 

[captanzuelo]

The EPA test is a joke, done on a dyno. That's the real reason the numbers don't match real-world range. They are simply a comparison point you can use as a relative guide across multiple vehicles. How Does The EPA Calculate Electric Car Range?.

Its not a joke on the MS

 

[phil4791eng]

1. The green range bar has nothing to do with your driving habits (except the habits that increase degradation)
2. Model Y EPA test results: 451 mi x 0.70 = 316 miles

 

[DanDi58]

Its not a joke on the MS

You’ve driven more than one?

 

[captanzuelo]

You’ve driven more than one?

Yes, both were 75Ds. One was a friends, the other I rented for a week. Also drove an X but not long enough to make any useful range observations.

 

[Mike MY]

1. The green range bar has nothing to do with your driving habits (except the habits that increase degradation)
2. Model Y EPA test results: 451 mi x 0.70 = 316 miles

Phil4791eng, please explain #2. Where does 451 miles come from and why did you take 70% of it?

 

[captanzuelo]

Phil4791eng, please explain #2. Where does 451 miles come from and why did you take 70% of it?

its from the article that Dandi posted.

“For example, the Tesla Model Y will travel 451 miles on the Multi-Cycle City/Highway Test Procedure — which is a much higher range than anyone would actually see driving the car in normal conditions. The EPA will multiply the preliminary range and efficiency numbers from the tests by 0.7 to provide a final rating more in line with what drivers can expect from their cars. For the Model Y, that’s 316 miles of range”

 

[Fidalgo]

I like my Tesla but I'm puzzled why the company never weighs in on threads like this, which illustrate owner confusion or uncertainty. Why not (a) brag about a range increase in a press release and get free publicity and (b) explain to owners what they actually did. The eternal cryptic mystery is a mystery to me. They miss easy ways to increase brand loyalty.

 

[DanDi58]

Maybe because they have no public relations department any longer? Tesla dissolves its PR department — a new first in the industry - Electrek

 

[phil4791eng]

its from the article that Dandi posted.

“For example, the Tesla Model Y will travel 451 miles on the Multi-Cycle City/Highway Test Procedure — which is a much higher range than anyone would actually see driving the car in normal conditions. The EPA will multiply the preliminary range and efficiency numbers from the tests by 0.7 to provide a final rating more in line with what drivers can expect from their cars. For the Model Y, that’s 316 miles of range”

The 451 is the test result from the EPA test and they take that result and multiply it by 70% to arrive at the final number to make it more of a real world number.

 

[mark95476]

Just about every second thread on this forum is about range and how people are "confused" despite the mountains of information out there.

It's been like this since the Model S (~10 years now).
Then the Model X.
Then the Model 3.
Now the Model Y.

Tesla publishes a standardized EPA range for every single car they make. They update it when they find a new efficiency through manufacturing and/or software.

I like my Tesla but I'm puzzled why the company never weighs in on threads like this, which illustrate owner confusion or uncertainty. Why not (a) brag about a range increase in a press release and get free publicity and (b) explain to owners what they actually did. The eternal cryptic mystery is a mystery to me. They miss easy ways to increase brand loyalty.

 

[tezcatcatl]

I know this is an old topic but I didn't want to start a new topic on the same subject.

"I didn't expect a 90kw battery pack model S having a 219 miles range while a 75kw model Y having 297 miles of range under normal driving conditions."

Hey, I am the new owner of a 2016 Model S P90D, 772hp version. The odometer shows 68000 kilometers. (42253 miles)
I've read the whole topic and I am quite surprised with the low power consumption of the model Y of the OP. I am also assuming that he didn't drive all those miles always in Chill mode and a grandpa driving style..

297 miles of range means 477 kilometers with a 75Kw battery pack.
252wh/mile comsumtion. 1 mile is 1.61 kilometers.
252 / 1.61 = 156.5 Wh/kilometer
So 252 wh/mile means 156.5 Wh/kilometers!

I don't have a heavy foot and with sport mode, under normal driving conditions, no aircon, new 19" Pilot Sport 3s, my average was 255 Wh/kilometer. (410.5 Wh / mile)
So I was a bit annoyed, I decided to test it yesterday on Chill mode. I drove for 100 kilometers or so on chill mode. With a really chilled style. Combustion cars were taking me over on the traffic light take offs...
My average for those 100 kilometers was 205 Wh/km ( 328 Wh / mile )

Now.. Lets calculate the range of a 90kw battery pack with these consumption mumbers:

Driving like a normal person in sport mode:
90000 / 255 = 353 kilometers (~219 miles)

Driving like a grandpa in Chill mode:
90000 / 205 = 439 kilometers (~273 miles)

The grandpa scenario matches with what google suggests:
449 km range
Tesla Model X P90D (772 Hp) AWD 2015, 2016 Specs

I guess this is caused by the weight differences between Model Y and Model S.
Model Y:
Long Range AWD : 4,416 lb (2,003 kg)
Performance AWD : 4,416 lb (2,003 kg)
Standard Range RWD : 3,920 lb (1,780 kg)

My Model S:
P90D AWD: 4987 lb (2262 kg)

Soo seems like a weight difference of 259 kg causes a consumption difference of 158wh/mile. :O

I really didn't expect a 90kw battery pack model S having a 219 miles range while a 75kw model Y having 297 miles of range under normal driving conditions.

 

[jcanoe]

I know this is an old topic but I didn't want to start a new topic on the same subject.

"I didn't expect a 90kw battery pack model S having a 219 miles range while a 75kw model Y having 297 miles of range under normal driving conditions."

I guess this is caused by the weight differences between Model Y and Model S.

Model Y:
Long Range AWD : 4,416 lb (2,003 kg)
Performance AWD : 4,416 lb (2,003 kg)
Standard Range RWD : 3,920 lb (1,780 kg)

My Model S:
P90D AWD: 4987 lb (2262 kg)

Soo seems like a weight difference of 259 kg causes a consumption difference of 158wh/mile. :O

I really didn't expect a 90kw battery pack model S having a 219 miles range while a 75kw model Y having 297 miles of range under normal driving conditions.

The wheel size, weight make a difference. The tires make a difference. The OE tires on the Long Range Model Y, both the 19" and the 20" are all-season tires; tire efficiency is good. The Michelin Pilot Sport 3 (if that is the tire, not the Pilot Sport A/S 3, then it is a performance summer tire for maximum grip but poor tread life and efficiency.

 

[house9]

Soo seems like a weight difference of 259 kg causes a consumption difference of 158wh/mile. :O

I really didn't expect a 90kw battery pack model S having a 219 miles range while a 75kw model Y having 297 miles of range under normal driving conditions.

Guessing temperature is playing into your range discrepancy as well?
- Early Fall in Midwest/Southern USA vs
- Dead of Winter in Northern Europe

But you are on 4 year old tech with a 4 year old battery which probably has more degradation than any Model Y currently on the road?
I believe Model 3 and Y are more efficient than S or X, i.e. they take less energy to go the same distance and not all of that is due to battery size (weight).

 

[jcanoe]

I drive a 2016 Model S, RWD loaner vehicle for a week last summer. Driving in Chill Mode the Model S Wh/mile was easily 50Wh/mi higher than in my Model Y.

 

[mark95476]

Here's a recent Bay Area data-point (and a picture of a Rivian pick-up from the side and back). This is totally non-standard as EPA doesn't include going up/down 2000ft mountains repeatedly.