[Update: It happened] Track Mode not happening for P3d-

[Knightshade]

We've had the geofence argument dozens of times, mostly around FSD or Supercharging too close to home. If they aren't going to geofence for any of that, they aren't going to do it for Track Mode.

I mean.......there's at least 10 pages here telling me how hard it would be to code TM for a P3D-....can you IMAGINE the work needed to geofence it, too?

That'd actually be far easier since that code already exists for things like homelink (and in the new software for mirror folding)

TM for the - they obviously had to do actual work on, otherwise it'd have been out months ago.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That'd actually be far easier since that code already exists for things like homelink (and in the new software for mirror folding)

TM for the - they obviously had to do actual work on, otherwise it'd have been out months ago.

But my point here is that the geofencing argument has gone on for years now, and all that's come out of it is Homelink, the Scheduled Charging box, and the upcoming folding mirrors feature.

 

[Knightshade]

But my point here is that the geofencing argument has gone on for years now, and all that's come out of it is Homelink, the Scheduled Charging box, and the upcoming folding mirrors feature.

Ok, that's a different argument than the work to code the capability though....


The difference in what you describe is that the ones in use are geofences the owner sets.

Geofencing for say track mode (or any other geofencing where TESLA restricts you, rather than the owner setting the fence) would require tesla to keep a database of track locations, and maintain that database, push updates for it, deal with owners complaining the database is wrong, etc...

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Ok, that's a different argument than the work to code the capability though....


The difference in what you describe is that the ones in use are geofences the owner sets.

Geofencing for say track mode (or any other geofencing where TESLA restricts you, rather than the owner setting the fence) would require tesla to keep a database of track locations, and maintain that database, push updates for it, deal with owners complaining the database is wrong, etc...

Exactly. Which is why it'll never happen. Throw a disclaimer on the screen and be done with it.

 

[tomas]

We've had the geofence argument dozens of times, mostly around FSD or Supercharging too close to home. If they aren't going to geofence for any of that, they aren't going to do it for Track Mode.

I mean.......there's at least 10 pages here telling me how hard it would be to code TM for a P3D-....can you IMAGINE the work needed to geofence it, too?

FSD doesn’t yet exist and supercharging doesn’t carry liability risk. Which I suspect was one of the background conversations. I’ll bet the only reason that there’s TM at all is that Musk likes toys, believes in personal responsibility, and pushes the lawyers. He lets them write the “beta software” warning...

Remember when all the Nav systems would not let you key in destination unless in park? Then the S comes out with huge screen and no such restrictions? We have a lot to thank Musk for...

Nonetheless, I appreciate the lawyers’ concern on this one. That’s why I hope owners use it responsibly.

@Perry appreciate you want the cooling. I’d like the regen. Unfortunately, unless we see a change, there’s no menu. So those brakes are going to do their cornering thing at speed if TM is on, and anyone without brake mods who leaves it on for spirited road driving will need to frequently replace pads or risk being a danger to themselves and others.

 

[tomas]

But my point here is that the geofencing argument has gone on for years now, and all that's come out of it is Homelink, the Scheduled Charging box, and the upcoming folding mirrors feature.

Untrue. First geofencing feature was suspension on S. Fact that they did that is what gave rise to any discussion. And, isnt geofencing in summon? I know it won’t work on public roads.

Geofencing for tracks would be easy software mod, just a location check when you go to turn on TM. Drone software does similar to restrict flight in airport airspace. By law.

I know they won’t... just saying IMO they should. And could.

 

[Knightshade]

Remember when all the Nav systems would not let you key in destination unless in park? Then the S comes out with huge screen and no such restrictions? We have a lot to thank Musk for...

Nope.

Some car companies did that.

Others let you enter destinations while driving years before Tesla ever made the S.

(and some switched between depending on year or model)

Tesla deserves credit for lots of things- that ain't one of em.

 

[Knightshade]

@Perry appreciate you want the cooling. I’d like the regen. Unfortunately, unless we see a change, there’s no menu. So those brakes are going to do their cornering thing at speed if TM is on, and anyone without brake mods who leaves it on for spirited road driving will need to frequently replace pads or risk being a danger to themselves and others.

Not only that- the cooling works because it's pre-cooling, cooling between lapping, and overclocking the AC system for short periods. The first 2 won't help in routine/constant use, and the third will wear out the AC system prematurely in constant use.

I think we're starting to see part of why P owners paid so much for a software unlock and it's mainly to cover warranty costs

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Not only that- the cooling works because it's pre-cooling, cooling between lapping, and overclocking the AC system for short periods. The first 2 won't help in routine/constant use, and the third will wear out the AC system prematurely in constant use.

I think we're starting to see part of why P owners paid so much for a software unlock and it's mainly to cover warranty costs

How are we starting to see that?

Is there wear and tear data that has been made public, or are we going off conjecture again? Every time I do that, I get chastised....

 

[dww12]

It has FSD, white interior, red paint, tinited windows, 5800 miles. I paid $76k, tax credit drops that to $69k, refund drops that to $64k. Thats a $20k loss in 5 mths. Terrible.

2018 Model 3 -- | eBay

This sold for $55k a week ago. No EAP, No FSD. Almost no loss if he/she took the $5k before selling it. The issue is the accident and the value of EAP and FSD to a used car buyer. If I did not alread have one, or your car was white (already have red) I would be looking for ways to justify it.

 

[dww12]

v2019.4 is the last week of January so Track Mode for P- has been ready for two weeks. I think they are holding it to maybe release it with a batch of other features they've been working on. Track Mode is waiting on Dog Mode?

So do we all get a pizza party when the Ps are finally united?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

the Ps are finally united

wait...we're still talking about cars, I hope. Did I wander into the wrong forum again?

 

[tomas]

How are we starting to see that?

Is there wear and tear data that has been made public, or are we going off conjecture again? Every time I do that, I get chastised....

We are going off reported wear in this thread from P owners who have tracked their vehicles.

 

[tomas]

2018 Model 3 -- | eBay

This sold for $55k a week ago. No EAP, No FSD. Almost no loss if he/she took the $5k before selling it. The issue is the accident and the value of EAP and FSD to a used car buyer. If I did not alread have one, or your car was white (already have red) I would be looking for ways to justify it.

Also suspect Ebay buyer might not know that non PUP Ps exist. They will become a rounding error, and could therefore sell for same as PUP cars among buyers who don’t do extensive homework.

FSD a real resale loss until there are FSD features.

 

[Knightshade]

How are we starting to see that?

Is there wear and tear data that has been made public, or are we going off conjecture again? Every time I do that, I get chastised....

Not conjecture- physics.

As already mentioned we have real world data from the track on the brake stuff.

For the AC stuff if running the cooling "overclocked" to put off power reduction longer all the time didn't put more wear on the system it would always do it by default. The fact you have to turn that on specifically, and in a way that repeatedly tells you it's only for brief use at the track, makes it clear it's putting added wear on the system and not intended for the full-time use Perry plans to do with it.

Now- if they means it fails much sooner- or only very slightly sooner- than running it in spec- we won't know that for a while (possibly a long while unless there's more people like Perry who only ever drive at WOT) but it doesn't change the fact running a part above spec, full time, will reduce service life.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Not conjecture- physics.

As already mentioned we have real world data from the track on the brake stuff.

For the AC stuff if running the cooling "overclocked" to put off power reduction longer all the time didn't put more wear on the system it would always do it by default. The fact you have to turn that on specifically, and in a way that repeatedly tells you it's only for brief use at the track, makes it clear it's putting added wear on the system and not intended for the full-time use Perry plans to do with it.

Now- if they means it fails much sooner- or only very slightly sooner- than running it in spec- we won't know that for a while (possibly a long while unless there's more people like Perry who only ever drive at WOT) but it doesn't change the fact running a part above spec, full time, will reduce service life.

Fair enough, but what do other OEMs that offer similar functionality do? Tesla can see just how many miles you've logged in Track Mode. Will they give you bad news if you've gone over a certain number of miles in TM?

These are important things to consider. They may offer it, but they may give you a hard time if you try to claim a Warranty fix over it.

 

[Perry]

That'd actually be far easier since that code already exists for things like homelink (and in the new software for mirror folding)

Nope that would not work. Just think of all the disputes between Tesla and owners of what constitutes a track. Is this a track? is that a track? is my private land a track? oh you didn't include that new track. Tesla is not in the map database maintenance business. A disclaimer will suffice.

TM for the - they obviously had to do actual work on, otherwise it'd have been out months ago.

Not obvious. I have always argued that TM needed absolutely no change and it was just a matter of a low priority in flipping the "allow on -" flag. I think as time passes and its characteristics are tested it will be proven that there is absolutely no difference between TM on + and TM on - for the many reasons others and I have stated in this thread and others.

 

[Perry]

@Perry appreciate you want the cooling. I’d like the regen. Unfortunately, unless we see a change, there’s no menu. So those brakes are going to do their cornering thing at speed if TM is on, and anyone without brake mods who leaves it on for spirited road driving will need to frequently replace pads or risk being a danger to themselves and others.

My car is and will be moded well beyond the spec of the P+.

 

[MP3Mike]

Nope that would not work. Just think of all the disputes between Tesla and owners of what constitutes a track. Is this a track? is that a track? is my private land a track? oh you didn't include that new track. Tesla is not in the map database maintenance business. A disclaimer will suffice.

It wouldn't be the first time an automaker has put GPS restrictions on track features. From Nissan GT-R - Wikipedia:

In a review by Motor Trend editor Scott Kanemura, it was revealed that the GPS system fitted to the GT-R would remove the 180 km/h (112 mph) speed limiter when the car arrives at a race track, but only on tracks approved by Nissan.

Not that I think Tesla will do that unless people abuse track mode and it ends up in the press too much.

 

[Perry]

Not conjecture- physics.

As already mentioned we have real world data from the track on the brake stuff.

For the AC stuff if running the cooling "overclocked" to put off power reduction longer all the time didn't put more wear on the system it would always do it by default. The fact you have to turn that on specifically, and in a way that repeatedly tells you it's only for brief use at the track, makes it clear it's putting added wear on the system and not intended for the full-time use Perry plans to do with it.

Now- if they means it fails much sooner- or only very slightly sooner- than running it in spec- we won't know that for a while (possibly a long while unless there's more people like Perry who only ever drive at WOT) but it doesn't change the fact running a part above spec, full time, will reduce service life.

When I say all the time I don't mean 100% but only when I drive spiritedly for fun which is about 60% of the time. But yes the cooling will be used more and probably will fail sooner and hopefully will be under the warranty period. Then Tesla can use these early failures to learn and make more reliable parts in the future. I am helping them out because I know they didn't do enough testing on this stuff like the Toyota does for example.