[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

[SMAlset]

First off to OP, glad you were okay.

As to the Model S with the two guys who went off road and hit a tree and there appeared to be no one driving based on positioning of charred bodies in the car, well saw from CBS News that local CBS affiliate Houston KHOU TV said the guys were 59 and 69 years old! Totally blew my mind having thought these were teens risking doing something they should have known better than to do (if indeed were using tech to drive car with no driver to take over).

From CBS News:
“KHOU-TV reported that the car was a 2019 Tesla Model S, and the two men found in the car were aged 59 and 69. Herman said the car went about 100 feet after running off the road, hit a tree and immediately caught fire.”

No one was driving Tesla before fiery crash that killed 2 passengers in Texas, authorities say

A Harris County constable told local media that there was a person in the front passenger seat and another in a rear passenger seat after the wreck in the Houston suburb of Spring.

www.cbsnews.com

From hearing the begining of this accident I had wondered if the car crashed with driver, and the passenger was unconscious or dead from impact, and due to damage to car the driver couldn’t climb out driver’s door but managed to get to rear but smoke fumes/fire killed him before escaping.

Just a weird story I’d like to know what happened. Hopefully Tesla got info sent to them indicating whether a driver was there (maybe he fled scene after crash?) or maybe even more fantastical someone wanted to dispose of two guys and rigged the whole scene at high speed knowing bodies would be burned. Just weird.

 

[Huskyf]

Some more details in this article.

Scrutiny of Tesla crash a sign that regulation may be coming

A fiery crash near Houston with no one behind the wheel of a Tesla is drawing scrutiny from federal agencies that could bring new regulation of electronic systems that take on some driving tasks.

apnews.com

Also, I notice that had they left the road a few feet to the right the car would have crashed into the lake.

For me the strange think Why the passenger didn't react on to put is hands on the wheel to change trajectory if you see something wront you try to make possible to save us !

 

[Silicon Desert]

Kinda gotta wonder, when is Elon going to take Tesla's PR department off of autopilot?

Good thought, yet are you aware that there is no PR department? He closed it down about a year ago, and it wasn't much even then.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Which automated breaking do you think failed? The car was turning while popping a curb on grass....

The one that reads:
"Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly"

Every time one of these piloted vehicles slams into a semi trailer or emergency vehicle and every headline is 'Autopilot....' I have to ask... what about AEB???
That system doesn't require the driver's attention.

 

[Mr X]

Feels like 2015 again

 

[qdeathstar]

Issue with a PR department is that it would be inappropriate for Tesla to say its bit possible x happened so early in the investigation because if they end up being wrong their credibility will be ruined, but if they wait to make a statement till the investigation is complete no one cares an the media has moved on to the next sensational story... so or for autopilot is probably kinda pointless.

 

[qdeathstar]

The one that reads:
"Designed to detect objects that the car may impact and applies the brakes accordingly"

Every time one of these piloted vehicles slams into a semi trailer or emergency vehicle and every headline is 'Autopilot....' I have to ask... what about AEB???
That system doesn't require the driver's attention.

I don’t think you understand what aeb is and what it’s limitations are. AEB would not work well while steering for example

 

[Needsdecaf]

Here's a link to two young guys in Texas who managed to connect comma.ai to a Tesla S. I'm not suggesting they have any connection to the crash, but Openpilot is open source and there are hints on how others could do it for themselves. Just giving an alternate theory that the victims could have bypassed safety sensors, and made a jury-rigged autonomous system that didn't work that day.

First look at Tesla Model S using George Hotz's comma.ai semi-autonomous driving tech

About 50,000 Tesla owners, including myself, have a Model S without Tesla’s Autopilot technology since it was only introduced in...

electrek.co

Instructions for making Openpilot from comma.ai work on Classic Tesla Model S

openpilot.robertcotran.com

These instructions would also work on an autopilot Model S, but the controls for engaging openpilot vs. the car's autopilot could be confused so caution is advised. To get openpilot working on an autopilot Tesla Model S, omit the section on Bypassing the EPAS kill signal.

The victims were a 59 year old and a 69 year old living in a gated community where the average price is in the several million dollar range. Neither of these guys were doing what you posted above to bypass safety sensors.

 

[Dan D.]

The victims were a 59 year old and a 69 year old living in a gated community where the average price is in the several million dollar range. Neither of these guys were doing what you posted above to bypass safety sensors.

I don't know that, you don't know that. Age and wealth are no barriers to experimentation and enjoyment of their vehicles. Accidents happen, despite and sometimes because of this.

 

[MikeyC]

From hearing the begining of this accident I had wondered if the car crashed with driver, and the passenger was unconscious or dead from impact, and due to damage to car the driver couldn’t climb out driver’s door but managed to get to rear but smoke fumes/fire killed him before escaping.

Just a weird story I’d like to know what happened. Hopefully Tesla got info sent to them indicating whether a driver was there (maybe he fled scene after crash?) or maybe even more fantastical someone wanted to dispose of two guys and rigged the whole scene at high speed knowing bodies would be burned. Just weird.

All good questions. I had wondered the same thing, particularly, whether the driver could have tried to escape from a rear door if front door(s) were jammed. They seemed pretty sure one occupant was in the front passenger seat and one was in a rear passenger seat, so maybe they were both still belted? Or there was other evidence to the fact that's where they were when the impact occurred? Driver fleeing is another possibility but that seems to be debunked by someone saying that when they left, there were only two in the car.

Mike

 

[SMAlset]

Well found the article from KHOU and more details there. Looks like climbing over the drivers seat was ruled out by upright position.

“They are 100 percent certain that no one was in the driver seat driving that vehicle at the time of impact. They are positive," Herman said. "And again, the height from the back seat to the front seat, that would be almost impossible, but again our investigators are trained. They handle collisions. Several of our folks are reconstructionists, but they feel very confident just with the positioning of the bodies after the impact that there was no one driving that vehicle.”

https://www.khou.com/mobile/article/news/local/tesla-spring-crash-fire

 

[Dan D.]

The victims were a 59 year old and a 69 year old living in a gated community where the average price is in the several million dollar range. Neither of these guys were doing what you posted above to bypass safety sensors.

I don't know that, you don't know that. Age and wealth are no barriers to experimentation and enjoyment of their vehicles. Accidents happen, despite and sometimes because of this.

Sorry, I just noticed you list your location as The Woodlands. My sincere apologies if you do know the victims.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I don't know that, you don't know that. Age and wealth are no barriers to experimentation and enjoyment of their vehicles. Accidents happen, despite and sometimes because of this.

No, I don't know that. But I live 1/2 mile from the crash site, and know people who live in the community. I know the type of people who live there. Fortunately I do not know these victims specifically. Very sad no matter what they were or were not doing.

Would I bet my life? Of course not, as you said, anyone can do anything. But I highly, highly doubt that, as another poster said, dropped off their wives from dinner and then whipped out a Rasberry Pi so that they could hack the car while they drove around their own neighborhood.

 

[Dave EV]

It looks like the car hit the brakes hard enough to briefly lock up the wheels when hitting the grass before ABS kicked in. Question is - did the car hit the brakes by itself, or did someone else?

Someone above mentioned 100 ft, looks more like 50 ft from where the car left the road to the trees to me. I wonder if the trees keep the occupants from opening the doors?

Screencaptures taken from video in the 1st post.

 

[SMAlset]

This is pure FUD. If you remove the weight in the driver seat the car shuts down and goes into park. This didn't happen as reported.

Doesn’t someone have to be in the driver’s seat and press the brake to start the car? There’s Summons that that wouldn’t apply to but it only goes at a slow speed.

 

[electricar]

It does not seem so. You just have to have the seat buckled and weight on the steeringwheel.
See youtube example starting 1:20 ish in.

You just can’t fix stupid.

 

[DarkandStormy]

All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware | Tesla

www.tesla.com

"The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself."

 

[EVNow]

No, I don't know that. But I live 1/2 mile from the crash site, and know people who live in the community. I know the type of people who live there. Fortunately I do not know these victims specifically. Very sad no matter what they were or were not doing.

Would I bet my life? Of course not, as you said, anyone can do anything. But I highly, highly doubt that, as another poster said, dropped off their wives from dinner and then whipped out a Rasberry Pi so that they could hack the car while they drove around their own neighborhood.

Yes - when all said and done - I'm sure when the final report comes out (when everyone has moved on and few even remember) - it will be a mundane thing like drunk driving / pressing the accelerator instead of brake + moving to the backseat to try and get out. No AP / Cruise Control.

Almost reminds me of Princess Diana. After weeks of constant speculation by media, turned out to be a "boring" case of drunk driving.

The victims were a 59 year old and a 69 year old living in a gated community where the average price is in the several million dollar range. Neither of these guys were doing what you posted above to bypass safety sensors.

https://www.redfin.com/city/25846/TX/Spring/filter/viewport=30.15625:30.15454:-95.52938:-95.53237,no-outline

Yes, looks fairly expensive for TX. 1 to 3M range.

 

[SMAlset]

What do we know?

The Vehicle was a 2019 Model S
One of the victims was 59 years old, and the other was 69 years old.
Neither victim owned the car or was that familiar with it
One victim was found in the passenger seat, and the other victim was found in the rear seat.
Was a high speed crash into a tree in a neighborhood not far from the owner of the car

Given what we know I think its highly unlikely it was on AP due to the requirements AP has for the seatbelt, and the seat weight sensor. Instead its more likely that it was a tragic misengagement of the throttle at the wrong time, and they simply couldn't get out of the vehicle for some reason.

Here is the article that I got some of the "what we know" information from.

PCT 4: Two killed when Tesla catches fire after crashing into tree

Constable Mark Herman said his accident investigators are confident no one was in the driver's seat when the car hit a tree.

www.khou.com

So not their car but one owned by someone nearby. Hard to believe these 59/69 year old guys car jacked or stole the vehicle and somehow tried to operate it without a driver in the driver’s seat. I’m leaning towards a driver, maybe owner of car, taking these guys for a ride but not paying attention and crashing the car, leaving the scene, maybe to get help, but with 2 deaths after a fire started isn’t fessing up.

I was under the impression that the batteries don’t start their thermal runaway until a little bit after the crash so at least in my mind at this point a driver could have gotten out of the car before it caught fire. Not surprised agencies are looking at this because it should be thoroughly investigated. Too many weird circumstances that need explanation. Maybe an arrest if driver fled and covering up. Certainly causing an accident even with fatalities and fleeing the scene is not unheard of.

 

[mrElbe]

If the 12V battery is damaged and not delivering current to the electronics in a Model S, there is no way any of the rear doors will open. They are fully electronic releases unless you know about the hidden under the seat bench manual wire loop releases. The front doors are also electronic release but have a physical cable to the lock mechanism in the door as backup. The rear door lock mechanism is not in the door but in the rear body. Hence the hidden emergency release cables. So, jumping into the rear seat to get out involves finding these hidden cables. If somebody outside the car tries to rescue someone from the back seat by smashing the window he or she will not be able to open the rear door by trying the inner door handle if 12V power is not working.