Upgraded to OEM Red Calipers-MXP

[Daytonaviolet]

I got thr Red Caliper Kit with higher thermal capacity pads from Tesla.

 

[Daytonaviolet]

I got the Red Caliper Kit with higher thermal capacity pads from Tesla

 

[tps5352]

I got the Red Caliper Kit with higher thermal capacity pads from Tesla
...

Your car was a Performance model to begin with, correct?

 

[Daytonaviolet]

Your car was a Performance model to begin with, correct?

It’s a 2023 mxp but missed the matrix and red calipers. I did the matrix myself but had Tesla do the red calipers.

Now I can see the matrix and red calipers on my app.

 

[tps5352]

It’s a 2023 mxp...

I asked because (depending on the SC?) I think it can be difficult to order red brakes from Tesla for a non-performance model.

 

[Daytonaviolet]

I asked because (depending on the SC?) I think it can be difficult to order red brakes from Tesla for a non-performance model.

If the SC won’t install it because you don’t have a plaid, perhaps try to buy the rears only and paint the fronts. Or contact tom@eas.

 

[weespeed]

• @MLo1:
  • The rear caliper is not just a standard caliper with a cover. That rumor may have started because of the whole Model Y performance brake caliper scandal. But Models 3 and Y use different brakes, I believe.
  • Since ~ 2017 rear Model X (and Model S) brakes are (less powerful) Mando brakes. They work slightly differently from the (more powerful) front Brembo brakes. With the Mandos, there is a large piece (bracket?) that slides in and out (with hydraulic pressure). That is the piece that looks like a cover. It is not a cover, per se, but is part of the whole cast aluminum assembly. At least, that is how it is on the "Legacy" rear Mando brake calipers, and from photos it appears to be the same for the "refreshed" models.
  • The rear brake does not have a plastic cover, afaik. (It doesn't on the "Legacy" rear brakes.) It is just the way the rear Mando brakes are built (of a cast alloy, I believe).

I just wanted to point out on the refreshed X, It is literally a cover. The rear brakes are identical. On my 22 Plaid they are Black. On my friends 23 Plaid they are red. From looking at it it looks like it 2 times the size. We removed his tire and took a closer look. It's a cover that is held on with one bolt. Once we removed that, its a red caliper that is identical to my 22 black calipers. In fact I tried buying just that cover from Tesla, but they said they only sell it as one unit.

 

[Daytonaviolet]

The rears are identical except the larger red faux caliper cover. But pads on each corner are the higher thermal pads and new lines.

 

[tps5352]

I just wanted to point out on the refreshed X, It is literally a cover...

OK; apologies.

My understanding was that for Model Y (and 3?) at some point Tesla started using red caliper “covers” (like what some people do instead of painting calipers) in place of actual red calipers. And I wanted people to know that, if true, that is not what Tesla is doing with Models S and X.

But I should not talk about “Refreshed” (2021+) Models S & X brakes, since I have only handled “Legacy” (2012/5-2021) brakes.

*****​

Here is visual info about Legacy Models S/X rear brakes. You owners of newer models can determine how similar "Legacy" and "Refreshed" rear brakes are.

Based on Legacy Model X calipers I do see what can be called a “cover" piece. (See "A" in photos, below.) (All the names of parts below are my own, and not official names.)

From what I can surmise, the purpose of the (metal) cover-plate on Legacy rear brakes is aesthetic—e.g., to provide a relatively flat, yet stylish, outside surface for the “Tesla” logo. (But, again, its purpose is not to “cheapen” performance brakes by covering/hiding standard calipers. The cover-plate is present on both gray and red rear Legacy Models S/X Mando calipers.)

To be fair to all of us involved, the anatomy of the Legacy Mando calipers is…odd, at least compared with classic Brembo brake calipers. Let’s take a look:

2020 Models S/X "Performance" Left Rear Mando Brake Caliper​

Photo 1 Bottom View​	Photo 2 Top View​
Photo 3 Right Side View​	Photo 4 Left Side View​

Photo 5 Front View​

Key

● Click on photos to enlarge.
● Arrows (Photos 1-4) are meant to indicate some of the major parts that apparently "slide" in and out in relation to the rear axle assembly.
A. Outer metal “cover”-plate. Metal (aluminum?) Bolts to moveable frame piece (C).
B. Single Allen bolt (head not clearly visible in Photo 1; in shadow). Appears to connect "A" to "C."
C. Moveable frame piece. Cast metal. Holds outer brake pad (D). Cover (A) is bolted to this moveable piece (C).
D. Outer brake pad (partly hidden in Photo 1).
E. Non-moveable frame piece. Cast metal. Bolted to the car. Holds inner brake pad (F). (Only partly visible in Photo 5.)
F. Inner brake pad (mostly hidden in Photo 1).
G. Parking brake servo-motor (inside black plastic housing). Bolted to moveable frame piece (C).
H. Electrical connector (for parking brake motor).
I. Brake caliper bolt.
J. “Slider” assembly (with flexible grease cover). (See Photos 2, 3, and 4.)

So in summary, the (Legacy) Mando brake consists of three main parts:

1. Moveable frame piece (slides in relation to non-moveable frame piece).
2. Non-moveable frame piece (bolted to the car).
3. Parking brake servo motor assembly (solidly connected to moveable frame piece).

The (purely aesthetic?) cover piece is bolted onto the outer side of the moveable frame piece.

Is any of this similar to "refreshed" (2021+) rear Models S/X brake calipers?

By the way, older Models S/X had front and rear Brembo brakes. This was eventually deemed unnecessary and/or unnecessarily expensive. Around 2017 Models S/X started using Mando rear brakes. I read that they are not as powerful as the (front) Brembo brakes, but then again they probably don’t need to be in most (non-track) situations. (But what about when towing heavy loads?)

 

[weespeed]

View attachment 1037458 Photo 5​

What you're showing doesn't show the cover. The red caliper in Photo 5 is the exact same caliper I have on my 22 MXP but mine is black. There is a cover that attaches that makes it look like it's twice as big, but in fact it's the same exact caliper.

Edited: I see you're referencing the legacy brakes.

On the refreshed X, the brakes are all the same. On the 22 Plaid they were black. Sometime in 23, the Plaids came with red calipers and the rear were huge. Making people assume they were different, larger and better. Once more people got a hold of the 23 Plaids with the new calipers, turns out they were the exact same as the 22 Plaids, just red with a large cover to make it look bigger. There was debate on if they were actually better. But after doing part searches they were the same pads etc.
Some time later Tesla put out a news release saying Plaid owners can upgrade their brakes to these new ones. Once people got a hold of them, it confirmed they were actually the same calipers with just a cover. But now Tesla had. A new part number for the brake pads. So they made a change to the pads since the brakes were not up to the ttask.they also upgraded the brake fluid
I researched all of this because I was annoyed with the fact I didn't get red brakes and was going to do the upgrade. Then the price drops happened and well I just gave up on doing anything with my Plaid. Just drive it and try not to think about it now. Keeps my blood pressure down this way.

Here is a youtube clip of what it is.

 

[tps5352]

What you're showing doesn't show the cover.

OK. Wow. What a mess. My "Legacy" car has no rear brake covers like what you are describing. Just the rear brake logo "plate." (I'll call it a "plate," here, rather than a "cover.")

The red caliper in Photo 5 is the exact same caliper I have on my 22 MXP but mine is black. There is a cover that attaches that makes it look like it's twice as big, but in fact it's the same exact caliper.

Again, I have not handled "Refreshed" 2021+ brakes, so I am not knowledgeable about them specifically. But from what you tell me it appears that Tesla is trying to make rear Mando brakes look like front Brembo brakes. Is this what you would say? Why? Seems dumb to me, and asking for unnecessary trouble (from disgruntled customers).

• Back in 2015-16, Models S and X originally came with four Brembo brakes.
• Then Tesla switched to rear Mandos around 2016-17, probably to save money.
• Brembo brakes are more powerful--everybody knows that.
• But rear brakes normally do less of the work of stopping, I'm told. (Some race cars, like in F1, have brake bias adjustment settings. Not so on most street cars. Can you imagine providing average customers with active settings to manually change brake bias? That's just asking for lawsuits.)
• And let's face it, Tesla cars normally don't need to use the brakes as much because of passive regeneration of energy.
• Clearly, I am not an engineer. But my guess is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having rear Mando brakes.
• However, for those drivers taking their cars to the track or otherwise needing high performance, there are plenty of cool Tesla and aftermarket brake upgrades.
  |
• So why the need to camouflage (Mando) rear brakes

On the refreshed X, the brakes are all the same.

Do you mean that front and rear brakes are all identical?

On the 22 Plaid they were black.

That I knew, having seen photos. Based on those photos, it appears to me that the front "Refreshed" brakes are a newer Brembo model and not interchangeable with "Legacy" front brakes (like mine), because of the brake bolt orientation.

I have heard, but do not definitely know, that rear "Refreshed" Models S/X brake calipers and rear "Legacy" Models S/X brake caliper are similar, if not identical (except for the color). Don't know for sure.

One way to help tell is to study the Tesla Parts Catalog Parts Numbers.

Sometime in 23, the Plaids came with red calipers and the rear were huge. Making people assume they were different, larger and better. Once more people got a hold of the 23 Plaids with the new calipers, turns out they were the exact same as the 22 Plaids, just red with a large cover to make it look bigger. There was debate on if they were actually better. But after doing part searches they were the same pads etc.

That's a bad decision by Tesla, imo. Why not give customers a choice of rear brakes (e.g., Brembos, for more $$$ or less expensive Mandos), but by all means leave out the unnecessary brake covers. (I'll answer my own question: Because such a choice would add all kinds of additional production expense. Brembo rear brakes are more "old school" in design [i.e., totally hydraulic], and require entirely separate rear parking brake calipers.)

Some time later Tesla put out a news release saying Plaid owners can upgrade their brakes to these new ones. Once people got a hold of them, it confirmed they were actually the same calipers with just a cover. But now Tesla had. A new part number for the brake pads. So they made a change to the pads since the brakes were not up to the ttask.they also upgraded the brake fluid

This is like those WWII Allied veterans in that special outfit who were recently (finally!) honored for helping to fool the Germans using all kinds of deceptive "tricks"--e.g., inflatable "tanks,", camouflaged stuff, sound effects of armored vehicles on the move, et cetera. Did some Tesla junior executive or engineer get a big bonus for coming up with brake covers for 2021+ cars (in answer to customer complaints about switching to less powerful rear brakes)?

I researched all of this because I was annoyed with the fact I didn't get red brakes and was going to do the upgrade. Then the price drops happened and well I just gave up on doing anything with my Plaid. Just drive it and try not to think about it now. Keeps my blood pressure down this way.

I can understand your frustration. I have wrestled with the intractable Tesla behemoth a couple times on certain issues. So far my record is 50:50.

But if enough people complain, sometimes Tesla will apparently change policy (e.g., like with the Models S/X yoke steering wheel). But all too often, Tesla won't budge (like with FWDs--should have been "suicide" rear doors).

 

[terranx]

So *technically* there are software changes that go with the pads

cfg_brakehwtype (accesId 17) -> BREMBO2_42_44_D380_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 11) for the S, and BREMBO2_42_44_D395_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 12) for the X. And if you want the UI to reflect the red calipers, can change cfg_calipercolortype (150) to "RED" (02).

Obviously color is just a cosmetic thing, but I'm not sure if there's a functional difference when it comes to the car knowing what pads it has with regards to ABS, stability control, self driving stuff, etc.

 

[Daytonaviolet]

So *technically* there are software changes that go with the pads

cfg_brakehwtype (accesId 17) -> BREMBO2_42_44_D380_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 11) for the S, and BREMBO2_42_44_D395_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 12) for the X. And if you want the UI to reflect the red calipers, can change cfg_calipercolortype (150) to "RED" (02).

Obviously color is just a cosmetic thing, but I'm not sure if there's a functional difference when it comes to the car knowing what pads it has with regards to ABS, stability control, self driving stuff, etc.

Yes this is one of the reasons I went with Tesla for the install. Seems they had to make some changes

 

[weespeed]

So *technically* there are software changes that go with the pads

cfg_brakehwtype (accesId 17) -> BREMBO2_42_44_D380_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 11) for the S, and BREMBO2_42_44_D395_MANDO1_43_D365_GA5514HTT (configId 12) for the X. And if you want the UI to reflect the red calipers, can change cfg_calipercolortype (150) to "RED" (02).

Obviously color is just a cosmetic thing, but I'm not sure if there's a functional difference when it comes to the car knowing what pads it has with regards to ABS, stability control, self driving stuff, etc.

That's interesting. Many have bought the brakes and had them installed by their shop and nothing pops up on the info screen. The car doesn't know or can tell there's a difference. The only thing i can think of is when you do the upgrade through Tesla, the image of your X has red brakes instead of black. I've seen some on the forum buy the complete set up, that includes new rotors etc. And it was just plug and play.

 

[Daytonaviolet]

That's interesting. Many have bought the brakes and had them installed by their shop and nothing pops up on the info screen. The car doesn't know or can tell there's a difference. The only thing i can think of is when you do the upgrade through Tesla, the image of your X has red brakes instead of black. I've seen some on the forum buy the complete set up, that includes new rotors etc. And it was just plug and play.

Yes I just went with the Tesla mainly to have it all covered under warranty.

 

[terranx]

That's interesting. Many have bought the brakes and had them installed by their shop and nothing pops up on the info screen. The car doesn't know or can tell there's a difference. The only thing i can think of is when you do the upgrade through Tesla, the image of your X has red brakes instead of black. I've seen some on the forum buy the complete set up, that includes new rotors etc. And it was just plug and play.

Well like I said the caliper color config is clearly cosmetic, but they have a different parameter for the pad material as well, and I don’t know what that changes. If I had to guess it’d be a subtle abs / stability control thing.

 

[tps5352]

This is an interesting Thread. For those of us without "refreshed" (2021+) Models S/X, here is an attempt to list key "Performance" model and other high-performance 2021+ brake parts, with selected 2015-2021 Models S & X brake parts for comparison, as currently included in the Tesla online parts list. I wanted to post that information here, on this Thread. However, the unfortunate inability to edit (inevitable mistakes) after 24 hours in a post here causes me to be OP of a new Thread.

As I have previously reported, as is true with other car manufacturers the online Tesla Parts Catalog is a treasure trove of information about Tesla parts and equipment. My focus was on North American Tesla models. However, readers in other countries can readily find parts info online at the Tesla site as well.

 

[tps5352]

What you're showing doesn't show the cover. The red caliper in Photo 5 is the exact same caliper I have on my 22 MXP but mine is black. There is a cover that attaches that makes it look like it's twice as big, but in fact it's the same exact caliper.
...
On the refreshed X, the brakes are all the same. On the 22 Plaid they were black. Sometime in 23, the Plaids came with red calipers and the rear were huge. Making people assume they were different, larger and better. Once more people got a hold of the 23 Plaids with the new calipers, turns out they were the exact same as the 22 Plaids, just red with a large cover to make it look bigger. There was debate on if they were actually better. But after doing part searches they were the same pads etc...

Following up on preliminary observations in Post #51, I visited the Sacramento Service Center yesterday and saw, first-hand, the red brake/cover issue on a 2024 Model X Plaid there. Scandalous! (I am being facetious, but I really do think that Tesla may have made a Public Relations error on this one.)

So first,...Tesla Model X Plaid--looking real good!

Second, here is what red Tesla brakes look like on a Legacy Model X (with lug nut covers temporarily off):

(early) 2021 Model X Long Range Plus​

Right Rear Wheel​

Right Front Wheel​

The front brake is the classic (4 piston?) Brembo, used on Tesla Models S and X from 2012 to February 2021 (and plenty of other muscle and exotic cars). It is the more elongate brake.

The rear Mando brake (used from 2017 onward is more compact/squat; not as elongated. Note in the photos that it does not appear as high in relation to the wheel spokes and axle as does the Brembo. So clearly the two brakes are not exactly visually equivalent/symmetrical.

In Post #49 I previously provided detailed photos of the Mando rear brake caliper (from Legacy Models S/X). Here is a photo of a full set of (Legacy) "Performance" Models S/X brake calipers:

Again, note the obvious differences between the Brembo front brakes (in front of the photo) and the Mando rear brakes (towards the back). Mando brakes are not really small; but they are more compact, yet still hefty. But they may look small in comparison to the "elongated" Brembo caliper design. Note that (for the Legacy cars) the Mando calipers have a front plate (with "TESLA" decal), but no large "cover," as we are discussing.

So, why the (objectionable) rear caliper covers? Two reasons I can think of:

1. Aesthetics: To create a more appealing, symmetrical appearance by making the eye see two identical brake calipers in front and rear (especially when the car is in motion and the wheel spokes are a blur--the red calipers are especially noticeable)).
   |
2. Subterfuge: To hide the fact that Tesla is no longer using Brembo brakes in the rear (on Performance/Plaid models in particular).*

Upon reflection, I am going to give Tesla the benefit of the doubt and assume that the answer is Number 1. Why?

First, Tesla has been using Mando rear brakes (on Models S & X) since 2017. I think the cat is out of the bag on this issue. Second, in these days of social media and instantaneous worldwide communication, it is hard to believe that anyone would believe they could pull the wool over Tesla owners' eyes.

So I'm going with Number 1.

I still think it was an ill-conceived marketing decision**, but, whatever. The 2024 Model X Plaid does look good!
_____
* There may be other reasons, I suppose--like intentional anonymity. Auto makers obviously depend on a great many manufacturers to supply all the various parts used in car building. Auto-parts makers are often anonymous (to most drivers, who may assume that the car-company made everything on the vehicle). However, parts made by certain parts makers--tire companies being one obvious example--due to greater visibility can become desirable to (and sought out by) or infamous to (and avoided by) potential customers. Then too, for various (often financial or logistical) reasons car-makers may switch part-suppliers at any time, even midway through a model-year. A caliper cover hides what's underneath, and might allow a switch in brake-model with a minimum of PR disturbance.
** Could have instead made the caliper covers an optional installed accessory (both saving and making money for Tesla and giving owners the always appreciated option of choice). With a little bit of thought, this detriment (as some drivers understandably perceive possibly duplicitous covers to be) could have been transformed into a clear attribute for Tesla.