V4 of app drops Balanced/Cost Saving (Advanced Time-Based Control) options. Replaced with Time-Based Control

[jboy210]

I'm confused .... why would you want your Powerwalls to discharge during off-peak (low cost) time? Every time a Powerwall discharges you are losing 15% due to the round-trip losses. So it stands to reason you want the Powerwalls idle or charging during off-peak... and discharging during peak.

In my case, I only charge the Powerwall with solar so the loss is not a financial issue.

In the best case, I don't want to do is buy energy from the grid ever, even if I can get that energy at the off-peak rate. And I want the worse case to be I have to buy energy at an off-peak rate, but never at a peak rate.

 

[holeydonut]

i always thought batteries need to be "exercised" to maximize their lifespans, perhaps not necessarily every single day, but certainly sitting fully charged for long periods is detrimental (i thought). i also know batteries' lifespans are affected by the number of charge-discharge cycles, so it's a balance between cycling and leaving fully charged for long periods...am i misinformed about these perceptions?

i understand there are round-trip losses, but i don't really care about those losses (compared to maximizing the batteries' lifespans) except in a grid outage.

I think the "battery exercise" is simply not having them sit at zero charge or 100% charge for too long. A few hours at 60% SoC until the sun comes up and fills them up again having them sit for a few hours at 100% while your solar is running the house isn't that big of a deal. And we've learned that if our App says a Powerwall is at 100%, it's really only about 90% as a concentration of potential energy stored in the cells. I guess Tesla is basically making it mostly idiot proof to damage your powerwalls when using them with the provided options.

Personally, with the way the smoke and BS in the sky is so unpredictable, I want the highest percent chance I can get my powerwalls back to 100% charge before peak time. Sometimes I hit the 100% charge by noon... sometimes it only gets to 95%. But in every instance, the moment off-peak comes around, I want to take power from PG&E since that is the most efficient approach at this time.

If/when PG&E starts charging a fee to export solar energy to their grid, 2 things will happen.
1) I will laugh at @h2ofun
2) I will look into more Powerwalls
3) I will look into more disconnects

But I still think the best approach is to use Grid power once off-peak rolls around.

 

[powerwall88]

I think the "battery exercise" is simply not having them sit at zero charge or 100% charge for too long. A few hours at 60% SoC until the sun comes up and fills them up again having them sit for a few hours at 100% while your solar is running the house isn't that big of a deal. And we've learned that if our App says a Powerwall is at 100%, it's really only about 90% as a concentration of potential energy stored in the cells. I guess Tesla is basically making it mostly idiot proof to damage your powerwalls when using them with the provided options.

Personally, with the way the smoke and BS in the sky is so unpredictable, I want the highest percent chance I can get my powerwalls back to 100% charge before peak time. Sometimes I hit the 100% charge by noon... sometimes it only gets to 95%. But in every instance, the moment off-peak comes around, I want to take power from PG&E since that is the most efficient approach at this time.

If/when PG&E starts charging a fee to export solar energy to their grid, 2 things will happen.
1) I will laugh at @h2ofun
2) I will look into more Powerwalls
3) I will look into more disconnects

But I still think the best approach is to use Grid power once off-peak rolls around.

Got it. So I take it you think there was no benefit from either a financial standpoint or from the standpoint of maximizing the powerwall lifespan of the old “balanced” time based control mode? That was the mode I was previously using and it would start discharging at 5 pm when peak started, and continue discharging when peak ended at 8 pm until the reserve limit was reached.

on a separate note, any reason I shouldn’t switch to a different TOU plan with a lower off peak rate, like the 4-9pm peak rate plan, or the EV plan? Seems like that would make sense as long as I have enough power wall capacity to power my house through all non off peak periods?

 

[skepticcyclist]

Got it. So I take it you think there was no benefit from either a financial standpoint or from the standpoint of maximizing the powerwall lifespan of the old “balanced” time based control mode? That was the mode I was previously using and it would start discharging at 5 pm when peak started, and continue discharging when peak ended at 8 pm until the reserve limit was reached.

on a separate note, any reason I shouldn’t switch to a different TOU plan with a lower off peak rate, like the 4-9pm peak rate plan, or the EV plan? Seems like that would make sense as long as I have enough power wall capacity to power my house through all non off peak periods?

The financial benefit comes if you’re also charged for power sent back to the grid. Balanced makes use of load shifting while using the grid less than that of cost savings.

 

[mjptech]

Wonder if this is why the v4 app is still delayed in Google Play Store... Seems like there's still too many kinks to work out and they released it too early.

 

[h2ofun]

I think the "battery exercise" is simply not having them sit at zero charge or 100% charge for too long. A few hours at 60% SoC until the sun comes up and fills them up again having them sit for a few hours at 100% while your solar is running the house isn't that big of a deal. And we've learned that if our App says a Powerwall is at 100%, it's really only about 90% as a concentration of potential energy stored in the cells. I guess Tesla is basically making it mostly idiot proof to damage your powerwalls when using them with the provided options.

Personally, with the way the smoke and BS in the sky is so unpredictable, I want the highest percent chance I can get my powerwalls back to 100% charge before peak time. Sometimes I hit the 100% charge by noon... sometimes it only gets to 95%. But in every instance, the moment off-peak comes around, I want to take power from PG&E since that is the most efficient approach at this time.

If/when PG&E starts charging a fee to export solar energy to their grid, 2 things will happen.
1) I will laugh at @h2ofun
2) I will look into more Powerwalls
3) I will look into more disconnects

But I still think the best approach is to use Grid power once off-peak rolls around.

I will be going from laughing now to crying

 

[miimura]

i've had the exact same experience - powerwall is discharging ONLY during my peak period (5-8p on weekdays), and is sitting idle fully charged at all other times. seems to me like a significant downgrade in functionality by not having the powerwall also discharge at night down to the reserve limit

My rate plan and therefore my app configuration includes a shoulder period on each side of the Peak period. My PWs have started discharging to satisfy the home load at the beginning of the Part-Peak period (3pm). When I was on Balanced before the app update, the PWs would only discharge if the solar production was not enough to satisfy the home load during that 3-4pm time slot. The PWs also discharge through the 9pm-12mid Part-Peak period if there is sufficient energy above the Reserve. I have not yet seen it discharge during Off-Peak since the app update to V4.

 

[holeydonut]

Got it. So I take it you think there was no benefit from either a financial standpoint or from the standpoint of maximizing the powerwall lifespan of the old “balanced” time based control mode? That was the mode I was previously using and it would start discharging at 5 pm when peak started, and continue discharging when peak ended at 8 pm until the reserve limit was reached.

on a separate note, any reason I shouldn’t switch to a different TOU plan with a lower off peak rate, like the 4-9pm peak rate plan, or the EV plan? Seems like that would make sense as long as I have enough power wall capacity to power my house through all non off peak periods?

I actually think you harm yourself slightly financially any time your batteries export energy during off-peak time. Since you're getting the least bang for your buck if that happens.

I believe the old "Balanced" or "Self Powered" mode was intended to maximize being energy independent and green. When you use power from PG&E at 1am, only about 1/7 of it comes from renewables... the rest comes from natural gas, nuclear, biomass, and imports from states that are probably doing the same generation.

Technically you're being a dirty-dino-fart-burning-bad-person if you run a dishwasher at 1am using the Grid instead of your own solar-powered batteries.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I actually think you harm yourself slightly financially any time your batteries export energy during off-peak time. Since you're getting the least bang for your buck if that happens.

I believe the old "Balanced" or "Self Powered" mode was intended to maximize being energy independent and green. When you use power from PG&E at 1am, only about 1/7 of it comes from renewables... the rest comes from natural gas, nuclear, biomass, and imports from states that are probably doing the same generation.

Technically you're being a dirty-dino-fart-burning-bad-person if you run a dishwasher at 1am using the Grid instead of your own solar-powered batteries.

Some of us don't care about cost saving or harming ourselves financially. As you mention, we try to maximize our energy independence and use as much of our self-generated energy as possible.

 

[holeydonut]

Some of us don't care about cost saving or harming ourselves financially. As you mention, we try to maximize our energy independence and use as much of our self-generated energy as possible.

Yeah for people like you they should have kept the old system of letting you draw PW power as frequently as possible to use the Grid as little as possible.

But I wonder if they got rid of that option for their own selfish reasons. If Tesla wants to manage the largest distributed energy matrix as possible, they want every homeowner to minimize PW exporting since every kWh a homeowner spends on itself is power Tesla cannot claim to be available to push to the Grid.

 

[h2ofun]

Yeah for people like you they should have kept the old system of letting you draw PW power as frequently as possible to use the Grid as little as possible.

But I wonder if they got rid of that option for their own selfish reasons. If Tesla wants to manage the largest distributed energy matrix as possible, they want every homeowner to minimize PW exporting since every kWh a homeowner spends on itself is power Tesla cannot claim to be available to push to the Grid.

Good point. And if NEM goes away, .......

 

[jboy210]

Yeah for people like you they should have kept the old system of letting you draw PW power as frequently as possible to use the Grid as little as possible.

But I wonder if they got rid of that option for their own selfish reasons. If Tesla wants to manage the largest distributed energy matrix as possible, they want every homeowner to minimize PW exporting since every kWh a homeowner spends on itself is power Tesla cannot claim to be available to push to the Grid.

Another potential reason to get rid of it is to reduce cycles on powerwalls to avoid potential warranty claims for a capacity decrease over time.

 

[h2ofun]

Another potential reason to get rid of it is to reduce cycles on powerwalls to avoid potential warranty claims for a capacity decrease over time.

Since many of us legally have to cycle our PW's because of SGIP, that is not an option to not use them!!

 

[jboy210]

Since many of us legally have to cycle our PW's because of SGIP, that is not an option to not use them!!

Ah. I am definitely residential so don't qualify for SGIP

How are you managing this? As it is now I have to manually switch from time-based Control to Self-Powered at the end of the peak period to use the battery power all night and into the morning. And them from Self-Powered to aTime Based during the afternoon to avoid pulling from the grid during the peak. I really missed Advanced - Cost Savings, which did this more or less automatically.

 

[h2ofun]

Ah. I am definitely residential so don't qualify for SGIP

How are you managing this? As it is now I have to manually switch from time-based Control to Self-Powered at the end of the peak period to use the battery power all night and into the morning. And them from Self-Powered to aTime Based during the afternoon to avoid pulling from the grid during the peak. I really missed Advanced - Cost Savings, which did this more or less automatically.

I am not updating is how I hope to manage this

 

[jboy210]

I am not updating is how I hope to manage this

I kind of wish I would not upgraded. But I installed version 4 on my iPad Pro to try out the new UI and like a virus, the functionality is stuck, even when I revert to my Android phone and reset it to Time Based.

 

[h2ofun]

I kind of wish I would not upgraded. But I installed version 4 on my iPad Pro to try out the new UI and like a virus, the functionality is stuck, even when I revert to my Android phone and reset it to Time Based.

boo

 

[Zabe]

Any ideas if this might fix my powerwalls not charging from grid during off peak times? Again I do not have solar so obviously the powerwalls have to charge from the grid.

 

[acastal]

i've had the exact same experience - powerwall is discharging ONLY during my peak period (5-8p on weekdays), and is sitting idle fully charged at all other times. seems to me like a significant downgrade in functionality by not having the powerwall also discharge at night down to the reserve limit

Can't you put in a peak setting in the app on the weekends if you want to "exercise" the power walls?

 

[Mikepotts64]

I need a switch for off peak charging from grid so that when the solar production cuts in the PW2 is fully charged and all solar excess after home use goes to grid. = + 3c/kWh. Fit over off peak cost.