Loved this Apple to Apple video. FSDb 11.3.6 is the clear winner.
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Waymo vs FSD 11.3.6
- Thread starter Porkalletta
- Start date
powertoold
Active Member
Every day, Waymo's driving looks more and more primitive. In another year, we'll be laughing at how superior fsd is compared to Waymo.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
It is not an apples to apples comparison. The two cars did not even take the same route. And it leaves out a lot of scenarios that Waymo can do and FSD beta cannot do. It leaves out routes where FSD Beta would have a disengagement. It does not count pick up and drop offs that Waymo can do and FSD beta cannot do. You cannot conclude who is better on such a small sample of a cherry picked route. LOL.
powertoold
Active Member
It's just one comparison. We're not making any conclusions about the technology in general.
Apple #1: Same destination
Apple #2: Same destination
If Waymo wanted, they could simply add a safety driver and do freeways right? Why don't they do that?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
The OP said that FSD beta is the clear winner. How can you say that based on just one comparison? They could have very easily picked a different destination that Waymo would have been able to do and FSD beta would not have been able to do and then it would look like Waymo won the comparison.
Waymo is doing it with employees, just not with public rides yet.
And the reason is very simple: liability. Right now, Waymo is ok with assuming liability with employees in the car, they are not ready yet to assume liability with some random person in the car. But once they complete validation, they will remove the safety driver for public rides.
Liability is another big difference between comparing FSD beta and Waymo and why it is not an apples to apples comparison. With Tesla FSD, liability in on the driver so Tesla is fine with letting it do any route because the driver is expected to take over to prevent accidents. With driverless, Waymo assumes liability. So it makes sense that they might limit certain routes that are deemed more risky. So the two systems are not operating in the same routing conditions.
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powertoold
Active Member
Sure, that's why I asked why isn't Waymo doing more "risky" rides with safety drivers.
Before covid, many public rides had safety drivers (see jjricks' videos).
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
They are doing more "risky" rides with safety drivers. They are doing rides on highways with safety drivers now.
powertoold
Active Member
That's great. That's why I was asking why don't they enable highway access with safety drivers so these public riders can save 30+ minutes.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's a question for Waymo. But safety drivers cost money and also are likely needed for more urgent testing like in LA and Austin. So it might be a matter of priorities. Plus, Waymo is nearing the end of their highway validation anyway. They are probably very close to removing the safety driver completely for highways. So, at this point, it might not be worth it to take safety drivers away from their other testing, just to save the public some time, when they are very close to removing safety drivers anyway. And once Waymo does remove the safety driver for public rides on highways, it will be a moot point.
I have been wondering do these vehicles respond to roadway conditions? Such as Roads with temporary signs that say Dip, Broken Pavement, Bump. Do these vehicles adjust speed to road surface conditions? Driving down a Road with a Railroad crossing and the speed limit is 55 mph will the car automatically slow down somewhat before going over the Railroad Tracks? Will it move into the left lane if the right lane is so rough and bumpy that passengers will be affected? Can Waymo or Cruise see and recognize a Road that is broken up or there is a depression and there are no signs advising that the road is rough. That the vehicles need to slow way down or even go into the other lane if traffic permits to get around the bad part of the Road.
So much emotion over this. How about everyone looks at this from the 30,000 foot level. This is competition. This is advancement in AVs, ADAS, and ultimately saving human lives.
Waymo? Cruise? Tesla? We all win no matter what happens. Just be happy we live in an amazing time where we get to see this from the ground up.
Waymo? Cruise? Tesla? We all win no matter what happens. Just be happy we live in an amazing time where we get to see this from the ground up.
You don't have a horse in the race. When we cathect one or another faction of any competitive endeavor, folks will get emotional because we want our team, our party, our town, our company, our tribe, to win. If they win, we win. If they lose, we lose.
I’ve never seen Waymo as a competitor to FSD. To me, that’s like comparing a consumer coffee grinder I can buy on Amazon to a custom industrial coffee grinder installed at a coffee roasting and packaging facility. It might be interesting to compare the output, but ultimately, how well the custom industrial grinder works means very little to me since I can’t purchase it or use it myself. Maybe in the future Tesla will start offering robotaxis or Waymo will start offering a version of their hardware and software in consumer cars, and then they will actually compete, but both of those seem a long ways off.
Like most products on the market, there is a trickle down effect. That consumer coffee grinder likely had elements from the industrial product which inspired its design. I'm sure there are elements of Waymo inspired by what Tesla has done, and vice versa.
That's why I called it Apple to Apple not Apples to Apples. It was a successful race. The difference being that yes FSDb needed a driver to observe personally but would have succeeded without one in this case. Other than parking lot.
Now let's compare hypothetically by sending the cars to a place Waymo can't go. Not only would FSDb get there but would win the race unless Waymo could go on the highway. But, let's face it. Until FSDb graduates it's only going to be a, in its current form, a good driver assist device which works well for me.
How long will it take Waymo to not only expand to entire City Metro areas but connect large Cities to other Cities? Example Houston to Corpus Christie. Or Pheonix to Flagstaff. San Fransisco to Lake Tahoe. Las Vegas NV to the Resort on MT. Charlston NV or even Reno NV. MT Charlston was my destination on days off when we would go to Nellis AFB for Air Warrior and Red Flag War Games.
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