We Aren’t Saving the Earth Like People Think When Buying an EV.

[McRat]

Cruise ships only run at about 50% power when traveling best I could tell. I pulled down the pic because a 3rd party was in it, and pictures were forbidden.

 

[T34ME]

I guessed much better, based on my prior attempts to figure out fuel use to ship a car from Asia to the US. I wonder how much of the fuel consumption is to move the ship and how much to placate the passengers.

VERY interesting question! One I hadn't considered. How much fuel is required to power ships electrical needs - water pumps, a,c,, cooktops, refrigeration, lights, instruments, etc.? Good catch.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Even if EVs had zero carbon impact, merely breaking the incentive cycle for fossil interests to mold our global economic realities to suit their needs has a massive impact.

To me decentralization is far more than half the battle. We're now moving the ship in the right direction.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Drive EVs. Drive fewer unnecessary miles...

Here's the problem: driving a Tesla is so much fun that one is inclined to drive it more miles, not fewer!

(Time for another road trip... )

 

[nwdiver]

Here's the problem: driving a Tesla is so much fun that one is inclined to drive it more miles, not fewer!

(Time for another road trip... )

If only we had a giant fusion reactor bathing us in more energy than we could possibly use.... oh well...

 

[T34ME]

If only we had a giant fusion reactor bathing us in more energy than we could possibly use.... oh well...

I see what you did there!

 

[Xenoilphobe]

The cruise ship engine is a massive electrical generator - the propulsion system is electric on most of the newer ships.

 

[FlyF4]

Well... unintentionally, I'm sure ... but you did take pot shots at people here. Me, for instance.

"So I hope folks keep in mind when creating that custom license plate of “No Waste”, “No CO2” or whatever, then you are just denying reality. The reason I bought the car is because I like it. I don’t think I am helping to save the earth. Yea, it is a lot better alternative to ICE, but not pollution free. "
​

I had one of those license plates (moved, so have to reapply) - and according to your post, I am just denying reality.

Not offended. I understand you're enthusiastic and likely didn't mean to word it that way. But instead of disliking so many people's posts, I suggest you realize they are saying what you said you MEANT to say.

Yo Bonnie, well my BIGGEST apologies. There really was no intent to take a pot shot at folks as yourself. You are right, I did not mean it that way. I guess I should understand that most people not knowing me are ones not realizing I usually try to insert a bit of sarcastic humor. It didn't work out. Having said that. One of my friends on here really is in denial about her EV being 100% produced and running without a drop of oil ;-) Come on Kim... you can slap me silly for say it, but it is true.

So you know, when I "disagree" with a post, it does not mean I dislike it. To me there is a difference. I notice that the icons on here are not really consistent. There is a LIKE, but no DISLIKE. There is a DISAGREE icon, yet not AGREE. Actually, I'd like to have the ability to both disagree and like a post. I guess that makes no sense either .

 

[FlyF4]

I would agree with the original poster, but I think the OP needs to understand this is just the beginning of a revolution to change our future. They just released solar roof panels. What if every future household had solar panels powering up their homes and cars. Yes you would still need to make the products which requires some exhaust/energy, but the end result would be much less then still having ICE around. My advice.. you are making a impact, a huge one, but maybe not right now.
Mo

Well your assumption is that I DON'T understand this is the beginning of a revolution. Wrong assumption. As a person who has founded and co-founded several high-tech companies, I get the point. I guess I just didn't make the world's best posting. Perhaps I just leave out the snippy remarks in the future that was really meant to be both informative and funny. Some don't see it that way, so again, apologies to anyone possibly thinking I am bursting their bubble

 

[SmartElectric]

Context : OP says that EV's still use energy from cradle to grave.

Well, yes.

But if you buy the absolutely smallest EV with the least amount of materials in manufacture, things are not bad on that front:
Smart Electric Drive: Smart Fortwo from cradle to grave emissions

85 percent of the material from the smart fortwo electric drive is recyclable and 95 percent is reusable.

 

[Ulmo]

This topic was prompted by someone I met with an EV making snotty remarks about ICE cars and how they are polluting the earth. I suggested he do more research about how his own EV is built and runs.

Yea, this will make some people upset who think our EVs are perfect alternatives to ICE cars on the environment. As much as I like to think my Tesla is a perfect alternative, I am a realist.

While our Teslas are much better at reducing pollution and waste, I’m not one to brag about it. Consider about 30% of the electricity generated in USA to charge the cars is made by coal-powered plants (over twice the number of Wind, solar, and hydro plants combined), and the 20% of nuclear plants to generate the electricity will make waste that will be radioactive for thousands of years. And while roughly 30% of electricity is from natural gas plants that are cleaner than coal, they still pollute.

But then there is pollution that goes into making the car; diesel equipment mining and processing the Lithium, factories that smelt and create all the aluminum and steel, oils from the plastics, and factories to create all the other components of fabric, electronics, wiring, and on and on. Then there are the toxic chemicals to create the computer chips and many other components. Maybe as bad as making an ICE car.

So I hope folks keep in mind when creating that custom license plate of “No Waste”, “No CO2” or whatever, then you are just denying reality. The reason I bought the car is because I like it. I don’t think I am helping to save the earth. Yea, it is a lot better alternative to ICE, but not pollution free.

The good news is that as we switch to higher percentages of clean sources for energy generation, the numbers work in our favor.

1. It's like climbing up stairs. At first, you've expended a lot of energy and waste heat, and are not yet at the top, and yet you are in more danger after all that expense and pollution because, -- oh no --, you could FALL DOWN the stairs and die, and all this at expense of actually getting anything done, like surviving the narrow margins of life in all the hunting for food and warmth you have to do.
2. The numbers are already better. Most wealthy Tesla Model S and X buyers are also buyers of solar energy, so are offsetting a lot of fossil fuels to begin with. There are gaps, like with the stair analogy: batteries don't yet shift daytime solar into nighttime charging, meaning coal and other bad things charge cars at night. Even then, the coefficient of drag for Teslas is so low that even with those temporary situations with the fossil electrics is that the Teslas damage the environment even less, certainly the environment right near your home and where you drive.
   
   As we further climb the stairs, this is a temporary situation for the next quarter century, maybe less. For instance, PG&E is builing a 1GWh battery pack at an old gas plant in Moss Landing. I'm advocating that work parking lots get solar canopies and charge connectors so the batteries being charged in the day are already in their destination, the EV cars.
3. The diesels that mined the lithium and aluminum and all the other stuff and transported it to and from the factory will be replaced with electric. More factories are being built all over the world. Some of this is additive, yet some is replacive: some ICE manufacturing facilities will be replaced with EV manufacturing facilities. There is such a thing as an electric semi coming out soon, and they will use even more solar energy. More stair climbing.
4. Recycled nuclear fuel is less in radioactive quantity than the radioactive elements in the soot of coal power plants of equivalent output. See Bill Wattenburg. More nuclear, more solar, more clean energy is better than what we already have. More stair climbing. (I prefer solar because it doesn't turn matter into heat which has a net heating effect; but you have to watch out and look at the reflectivity of the sunlit space the solar is replacing, since some reflective surfaces reflect into space whereas the solar would collect the heat into Earth; some surfaces are already absorbing (forests, ocean, darker soils, asphalt roadways), so the solar would only replace that.)
5. ICE cars are already being made. If you're counting the damage to the environment they cause, we're replacing those cars with cars that after some decades of development will last longer, have fewer mechanical parts that need replacing, and so that's a net improvement, once again, stair climbing. Saying that the aluminum is not free is like saying that ICE cars are not free. What's your point there?

We're getting there. We need to take steps. We are on the way.

When I was born, solar power cost more than its competitors, by a lot. The liars and naysayers said it would "never be cheaper than fossil fuels", and engineers and scientists knew they were wrong. Now, solar is at or below the cost of almost every other form of energy besides some already installed centuries old hydroelectric facilities, and windmills, but we're learning that windmills cause too much trouble (they cause their own pollution and bad weather). Soon we may even have fusion (which I prefer to use only on dark days, but is at least part of the pie of offerings).

Someday we'll get to the top of that mountain breathing fresh air and look back and think how caveman-like we were with people claiming that "fossil fuels are better". Fossil fuels gets us up those stairs. We need local fossil fuels near- and medium-term to keep our nation(s) strong and independent, so evil people don't murder and cause war against us. Just as much, we need to get away from fossil fuels medium- and long-term so that we have that same independence from the other places with their fossil fuels when we run out or it is too costly to get the fossil fuels. And finally, we need to grow into clean energy so that we stop poisoning ourselves. These are all steps on the same staircase. We climb it, and the end is no more fossil fuels, even as we use them now.

What better way to climb those stairs than buy an electric vehicle and install solar on your home and in your business roof with parking lot EV charging? Well, actually, lots of other things other groups are doing. Yet, each one of those things, buying the EV, buying the solar, is only a step, and a costly step, a step that long term, costs less, but isn't free.

Economist futurists predict a time within a century or two when today's level of energy will be nearly "free", but getting to that point isn't magic.