Western Canada Superchargers

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

It's not for just the folks in BC and ON. Those of us who live in the supercharger black hole wind up with a 2 day drive to get to the supercharger network. Drive until you run out of range, then spend several hours charging up at a Sun Country Highway charger. Some of the people on this board from my province are willing to do that, I'm not. For me if there's no network, there's no road trips, no Tesla.

If Canada had a string of similar markets across the country, then there'd be greater value in connecting the whole Trans Canada Highway, because each Supercharger, and each connection between cities would be more valuable. But in reality, that's not how it is. The major markets in the west have been connected, the major markets in the east have been connected, people fly, and you can drive from BC to ON and QC.

You're in the hole in the middle and Tesla has other priorities, like the SE USA hole:
Memphis, TN region: 1.3M.
Birmingham, AL region: 1.1M.

We all want to see more Supercharger, and maybe when Model 3 comes, Tesla isn't burning through cash, and they're addressing a larger overall market they'll have more funds to fill in the useful but "low value" routes like the Trans Canada Highway and I-10 between Texas and Arizona.

 

[Lon12]

So do you recall what you had left in the batteries when you got to Kelowna? If you're driving a 90 with bikes on the back, at less than the posted speed limit, your consumption probably isn't too far off of 'no bikes, speed limit, bad weather'. If a 90 is tight for charge, I wonder if a 60 would make it.

I wouldn't doubt that the constant battery capacity upgrading we were seeing took Merritt off of their critical path. The Merritt Supercharger becomes important again, now that 60's are being offered once more.

I just did my first long trip from Calgary to Vancouver and back.
I charged my 85 to 96% in Hope. Full car with four pax, hot, around 30C, AC on the whole time. Trip planner said I would get to Kelowna with 30% while I was still at the super charger. Shortly after starting up the highway the prediction dropped quite a bit. The worst I saw was around 19%. But I actually made it to the Kelowna Super Charger with 27%.

 

[green1]

If Canada had a string of similar markets across the country, then there'd be greater value in connecting the whole Trans Canada Highway, because each Supercharger, and each connection between cities would be more valuable. But in reality, that's not how it is. The major markets in the west have been connected, the major markets in the east have been connected, people fly, and you can drive from BC to ON and QC.

You're in the hole in the middle and Tesla has other priorities, like the SE USA hole:
Memphis, TN region: 1.3M.
Birmingham, AL region: 1.1M.

We all want to see more Supercharger, and maybe when Model 3 comes, Tesla isn't burning through cash, and they're addressing a larger overall market they'll have more funds to fill in the useful but "low value" routes like the Trans Canada Highway and I-10 between Texas and Arizona.

I'm glad you personally don't see any value to the huge gap between Canmore and southern ontario (or to those who live in the majority of the country) nor want to travel from alberta to the usa. But these are extremely common routes for people to drive.

Again, I'm not asking for miracles, I know this takes time. I'm just asking for the same level of supercharger investment made in so many other countries. Per vehicle sold we have the fewest superchargers of any country tesla sells in, and at the same time we are a vast country with long distances between major centres so it could be argued that we have the greatest need of any country in the world.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm glad you personally don't see any value to the huge gap between Canmore and southern ontario (or to those who live in the majority of the country) nor want to travel from alberta to the usa. But these are extremely common routes for people to drive.

Again, I'm not asking for miracles, I know this takes time. I'm just asking for the same level of supercharger investment made in so many other countries. Per vehicle sold we have the fewest superchargers of any country tesla sells in, and at the same time we are a vast country with long distances between major centres so it could be argued that we have the greatest need of any country in the world.

What are the per-vehicle costs and per-vehicle income in Canada?
Is there an equivalent of ZEV credits?
It's not the numbers that matter, it's the net number of dollars.

 

[green1]

Tesla is quite clear that the vehicle price in each country is adjusted to match the costs of that country. As such, Canada's profit margin per vehicle should be approximately the same as every other country tesla sells in. Next excuse?

 

[Stephen4]

I just did my first long trip from Calgary to Vancouver and back.
I charged my 85 to 96% in Hope. Full car with four pax, hot, around 30C, AC on the whole time. Trip planner said I would get to Kelowna with 30% while I was still at the super charger. Shortly after starting up the highway the prediction dropped quite a bit. The worst I saw was around 19%. But I actually made it to the Kelowna Super Charger with 27%.

I've found the same character going over many passes along the cordilleran range. Many times after charging the predicted destination range was around 25-30% and at some point through my route I'd get as low as 6% (in one instance), but surprisingly, the battery level works its back up to about 20% by the time I get to my destination. Hills on the lee side certainly help out. And wind, AC, speed, drag due to bikes and extra weight all play into it, but on average I've found that the prediction is usually 8-10% lower. I'm fine with it. What's important is understanding it.

 

[1.21 Jiggawatts]

I spent some serious time this weekend at Tesla Chinook Centre in Calgary. Had my first Tesla driving experience with a Model S 70D which was quite impressive. It was also my first time driving an electric vehicle.The torque, handing and performance was incredible!

After my test drive, I spent some time in the store gawking at the model X and listening to the local rednecks trying to tell salesman that Tesla doesnt build good cars and cant replace a dodge truck. My god. The salesman was very polite throughout the "conversation" and just helped answer any "relevant" questions. Why would a person go into a Tesla store to bitch about electric cars? Would I go into a Dodge dealership to complain about gas cars?!?! WTF?

Anyway. I did ask around quite a bit about supercharger network expansion in Western Canada. I basically asked three different employees and they said that Tesla has been reaching out to inquire about good candidate locations for future supercharger locations. Each team member said they plan on connecting Calgary to Winnipeg eventually as they have had so much interest from people in Saskatchewan and Manitoba. The top three supercharger candidates were Medicine Hat and Swift Current to connect Regina to Calgary. Also planning a supercharger in Davidson to connect Regina to Saskatoon. Most salespeople figured these locations would show up on the 2017 supercharger map.

Lets hope people! Be positive!

oh ya, they also mentioned the calgary service centre would open this fall and would have its own supercharger. Which is pretty sweet news too.

 

[Porfiry]

After my test drive, I spent some time in the store gawking at the model X and listening to the local rednecks trying to tell salesman that Tesla doesnt build good cars and cant replace a dodge truck.

Oh my, so the Model X is on display in store now? I know what I'm doing tomorrow.

 

[S'toon]

After my test drive, I spent some time in the store gawking at the model X and listening to the local rednecks trying to tell salesman that Tesla doesnt build good cars and cant replace a dodge truck. My god. The salesman was very polite throughout the "conversation" and just helped answer any "relevant" questions. Why would a person go into a Tesla store to bitch about electric cars? Would I go into a Dodge dealership to complain about gas cars?!?! WTF?

Hello? Con central. Home turf of Harper. The place ain't exactly known for progressive thinking.

Edmonton has been known to surprise me though. "Wait a minute. There's an entire community development of passive homes?"

 

[Canuck]

What are the per-vehicle costs and per-vehicle income in Canada?
Is there an equivalent of ZEV credits?
It's not the numbers that matter, it's the net number of dollars.

Canada (federally) is among the worst in the world when it comes to supporting the transition to EV's. We have no federal rebate and no ZEV credits. But we hand over $34 billion in subsidies to big oil. It's embarrassing. Our new liberal government, while claiming a "green" budget, has in reality ensured these subsidizes will remain in place, even locking some in until 2025.

As I said previously, Tesla building Superchargers in Canada is akin to growing an organic farm on Monsanto owned land.

Why Tesla builds even one Supercharger in Canada amazes me. We don't deserve any.

 

[Scott_L]

oh ya, they also mentioned the calgary service centre would open this fall and would have its own supercharger. Which is pretty sweet news too.

Did they mention where the Calgary Service Centre and supercharger will be located? Really curious about that. Also, it's great news that it will open this year.

 

[beeeerock]

After my test drive, I spent some time in the store gawking at the model X and listening to the local rednecks trying to tell salesman that Tesla doesnt build good cars and cant replace a dodge truck. My god. The salesman was very polite throughout the "conversation" and just helped answer any "relevant" questions. Why would a person go into a Tesla store to bitch about electric cars? Would I go into a Dodge dealership to complain about gas cars?!?! WTF?

Well, in all fairness, I wouldn't put a bull in my Model S to go out and inseminate a bunch of cows... (the bull, not me, just in case anyone reads that the wrong way...)

 

[skrenes]

After my test drive, I spent some time in the store gawking at the model X and listening to the local rednecks trying to tell salesman that Tesla doesnt build good cars and cant replace a dodge truck. My god. The salesman was very polite throughout the "conversation" and just helped answer any "relevant" questions. Why would a person go into a Tesla store to bitch about electric cars? Would I go into a Dodge dealership to complain about gas cars?!?! WTF?

Haha, unfortunately, the reality is, there is a large number of human beings that are fanatics. If you ever talk to a fanatic about whatever it is they're fanatical about, it becomes the most frustrating, time wasting endeavour, filled with circular arguments (if they're smart enough) and irrational thought that bears no resemblance to reality. The fact that they're talking about an SUV and a truck would make me steer clear. That's like saying, "an apple sucks cuz it's not an orange". If you want an orange, by all means, don't grab an apple.

Canada (federally) is among the worst in the world when it comes to supporting the transition to EV's. We have no federal rebate and no ZEV credits. But we hand over $34 billion in subsidies to big oil. It's embarrassing. Our new liberal government, while claiming a "green" budget, has in reality ensured these subsidizes will remain in place, even locking some in until 2025.

As I said previously, Tesla building Superchargers in Canada is akin to growing an organic farm on Monsanto owned land.

Why Tesla builds even one Supercharger in Canada amazes me. We don't deserve any.

And yet against all odds, as you described, here we are... the Tesla owners. So on that basis, we definitely deserve our due share.

 

[LEKTRK]

Haha, unfortunately, the reality is, there is a large number of human beings that are fanatics. If you ever talk to a fanatic about whatever it is they're fanatical about, it becomes the most frustrating, time wasting endeavour, filled with circular arguments (if they're smart enough) and irrational thought that bears no resemblance to reality. The fact that they're talking about an SUV and a truck would make me steer clear. That's like saying, "an apple sucks cuz it's not an orange". If you want an orange, by all means, don't grab an apple.


And yet against all odds, as you described, here we are... the Tesla owners. So on that basis, we definitely deserve our due share.

Canada (federally) is among the worst in the world when it comes to supporting the transition to EV's. We have no federal rebate and no ZEV credits. But we hand over $34 billion in subsidies to big oil. It's embarrassing. Our new liberal government, while claiming a "green" budget, has in reality ensured these subsidizes will remain in place, even locking some in until 2025.

As I said previously, Tesla building Superchargers in Canada is akin to growing an organic farm on Monsanto owned land.

Why Tesla builds even one Supercharger in Canada amazes me. We don't deserve any.

We don't deserve any???
Did we not pay $100k+ for this car?, Do we not build up the car and company at every opportunity we can, do we not talk to whomever will listen about the benefits of EV's and why we need to stop burning oil and gas?
Do we control what our stupid government does or doesn't do?

I have driven my car to California, Arizona, Nevada and back with ease using the SC network... I have driven to Fort St John using level 2 chargers and at times level 1...hmmm not so easy. An EV up north is as rare as a driveway without a big assed truck in it...

Yes it our federal government cares more about throwing our money away to other countries and oil companies than helping the EV movement but as owners and proponents of Tesla we DO deserve an EXPANDED SC network.

 

[Canuck]

We don't deserve any???

Yes, we don't deserve any and we should be appreciative of the ones we have. Tesla is a private American company (publicly traded) that is coming into Canada and building superchargers and we're complaining that they're not building enough? I'm very appreciative of the ones we have.

Do we control what our stupid government does or doesn't do?

Yes we do and we should direct our outrage to a government that gives billions to companies that clear forests and extract dirty oil from tar sands. We have more than enough easily accessible oil from wells - far more than we should burn if we know what's good for us. There's absolutely no excuse for the tar sands. But leaving that aside, why give the tar sand extractors money but none federally to EV's?

Norway is also a large oil producer (15th in the world) but rather than completely ignoring promoting EV's (like our federal government) they promoted them so much this happened...

Norway’s electric-car incentives were so good they had to be stopped

 

[Porfiry]

Yes, we don't deserve any and we should be appreciative of the ones we have. Tesla is a private American company (publicly traded) that is coming into Canada and building superchargers and we're complaining that they're not building enough? I'm very appreciative of the ones we have.

Tesla sells cars with the cost of the supercharging network ostensibly built in to the price, and their pricing is reportedly consistent between markets. Canadians "deserve" superchargers because they paid the cost when buying the cars.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla sells cars with the cost of the supercharging network ostensibly built in to the price, and their pricing is reportedly consistent between markets. Canadians "deserve" superchargers because they paid the cost when buying the cars.

That's not true. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but if I recall correctly, when the first Model S's were reserved, and even when they were later ordered, there was no mention of supercharging at all. In 2012, when they built the first supercharger station, and when supercharging was announced, it was much to the delight of owners. It was after that occurred that Tesla started to market it, and you could see the map where the Superchargers were located, and planned to be located, when ordering your car (and even when not ordering your car). However, there was never any representation to build superchargers based on the price of the vehicles being consistent between markets, so that superchargers would be built "consistent between markets". You need to provide me with a citation for this allegation since I've been following Tesla a long time and I have never read anything remotely stating this. You buy the vehicle knowing where the stations are, and where they are planned to built, and nothing else is represented or implied at all.

 

[beeeerock]

That's not true. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but if I recall correctly, when the first Model S's were reserved, and even when they were later ordered, there was no mention of supercharging at all. In 2012, when they built the first supercharger station, and when supercharging was announced, it was much to the delight of owners. It was after that occurred that Tesla started to market it, and you could see the map where the Superchargers were located, and planned to be located, when ordering your car (and even when not ordering your car). However, there was never any representation to build superchargers based on the price of the vehicles being consistent between markets, so that superchargers would be built "consistent between markets". You need to provide me with a citation for this allegation since I've been following Tesla a long time and I have never read anything remotely stating this. You buy the vehicle knowing where the stations are, and where they are planned to built, and nothing else is represented or implied at all.

We paid for the supercharging. At one point it was an option, then it was built into the price. Unless cars were sold for less because there was little opportunity for them to charge at superchargers, it strikes me that we all paid for them. Therefore we should have equal access (we do) and also, equivalent opportunities to access (locations - we don't). Buying the car and paying for it, just so you can use superchargers in BC or Ontario, or the US, doesn't give the same value to that built in cost. Especially if you live in Saskatchewan or northern BC or... everywhere the superchargers don't yet exist.

 

[Canuck]

We paid for the supercharging. At one point it was an option, then it was built into the price.

That's not what I recall. I remember when it was not available at all on the 40, it was an option on the 60, and came standard on the 85.

Therefore we should have equal access (we do) and also, equivalent opportunities to access (locations).

I'm with you here. Anyone in North America can drive to any supercharger they want.

Buying the car and paying for it, just so you can use it in BC or Ontario, or the US, doesn't give the same value to that built in cost.

Agreed. But that doesn't change the fact that Tesla never promised to build superchargers "consistent between markets" as Porfiry said. While you and he may suggest they should, that's very different from suggesting Tesla represented that fact when you purchased the car. If they did, please correct me and direct me to the source.

Edit: Sorry, I'm misrepresenting what Porfiry said - he didn't say Tesla promised it but that we deserve it based on market share. So I'm back to my argument that we don't deserve it since we don't promote EV's but are one of the biggest, if not the biggest, subsidisers of fossil fuels in the world.

 

[f-stop]

from a recent shareholders' meeting:
Musk says it's 'obvious' Model 3 owners will pay to use Superchargers

“Free supercharging fundamentally has a cost,” Musk, 44, said Tuesday during Tesla’s annual shareholders meeting, held at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, Calif. “The obvious thing to do is decouple that from the cost of the Model 3..."

Says nothing about being 'consistent between markets' or equal opportunities/locations to access, but at least this implies that the current Model S and X have the cost of Supercharging built into the price of the car