What charge port connector?

[TEG]

But are you sure they were talking about the 90kW high speed DC charger, not the 20kW "HPC 2.0" (my term) ?

In case it isn't clear, they will basically have 3 types of equipment for charging:
#1: The hand held UMC2.0 we have seen so many pictures of recently (~10kW AC).
#2: The wall mount HPC2.0 (my term) that looks like a bigger version of the UMC, hangs on a wall, and offers ~20kW AC capability.
#3: The higher voltage, high speed 90kW DC charger primarily intended for public locations (not home use) which is the item whose size is being debated.

 

[NigelM]

Aah, you're probably right. HPC 2.0 is a good way to describe it. I was talking to Tesla folk purely about what will go in my garage.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Aah, you're probably right. HPC 2.0 is a good way to describe it. I was talking to Tesla folk purely about what will go in my garage.

Ah, yes, that makes it clear for me too. The battery engineer was talking about a sleek, gadgety "HPC 2.0" for a garage installation. Thanks, TEG, for being on top of things as always!

 

[TEG]

Something they could do, but probably shouldn't:
---
Given that the tail lights are symmetrical, and it looks like the right side also has a triangle shape that could be another flap, they could put a socket on both sides. Also they plan to offer the car with 2 separate chargers inside. So they could run each socket separately to its' own charger, and charge from two different cables at the same time.

Why this would be a good idea?:
#1: Most of the public AC infrastructure is J1772 at up to 30amps. That doesn't even take full advantage of one Tesla 40amp charger module.
So, if you plugged in two J cables at once, and had two chargers, you could get 60amp charging (2x speed) compared to what you would get with only one socket (even if you had 2 chargers.)
#2: The model S is wide enough that you may have trouble fitting in a narrow parking space / charge spot. It would be tempting to overlap two spaces anyways.

Why shouldn't they do this?
#1: Using 2 charging stations at once might be considered anti-social. (Although if you have a note saying someone can unplug one if they need it...)
#2: Using 2 parking spaces at once would be considered anti-social.

By the way, the Model S is said to lock the Tesla plug to the socket when the doors are locked. But for J1772 charging I think it would just lock the adapter module to the socket, and someone could still (theoretically) unplug the J-plug from the adapter if they needed to charge a different vehicle.

 

[vfx]

...and there's a new HPC that's permanently installed and provides twice the power of the UMC....

Anyone get a shot of it? Battery guy said it is half the size of the current HPC. They were charging the drive cars with them.

 

[vfx]

...
By the way, the Model S is said to lock the Tesla plug to the socket when the doors are locked. But for J1772 charging I think it would just lock the adapter module to the socket, and someone could still (theoretically) unplug the J-plug from the adapter if they needed to charge a different vehicle.

Yes, I was just pointing out that your easily pocketable Tesla 2.0 plug to J adapter would be safe from grabbing.

 

[TEG]

Anyone get a shot of it? Battery guy said it is half the size of the current HPC. They were charging the drive cars with them.

I was told that it was not being displayed, but that a prototype could be seen in the background of the video that played behind the "8 people get out of one S" event. Unfortunately my view of the screen was obstructed, so I didn't catch it. When people watch various views of that video perhaps they can look to see if they spot it.

I don't think they were using the HPC2.0 to charge the ride event cars. I was told twice that they were using a prototype 90kW high speed DC charger which makes sense given how many rides they were offering and only with 2 or 3 cars at a time. I heard them send away one of the cars once to drive around back of the facility (somewhere) to get recharged.

 

[Doug_G]

It's the same options as the roadster, just sleeker; There's a UMC -- which is what you saw, and there's a new HPC that's permanently installed and provides twice the power of the UMC. Either may be used. Most people probably don't need the HPC.

The HPC will be an expensive option because it will also require the second in-car charger. That second charger will only be useful for HPC and for high-power J1772, since the fast DC charging won't need it.

 

[dsm363]

The HPC will be an expensive option because it will also require the second in-car charger. That second charger will only be useful for HPC and for high-power J1772, since the fast DC charging won't need it.

Won't the car have the second in-car charger even if you don't get the HPC?

 

[Doug_G]

Won't the car have the second in-car charger even if you don't get the HPC?

No, it is optional.

 

[dsm363]

The Signature is supposed to be 'fully loaded' so hopefully it's included. Would be nice to take advantage of a 75A J1772 charger that's being installed in Austin.

 

[Doug_G]

The Signature is supposed to be 'fully loaded' so hopefully it's included. Would be nice to take advantage of a 75A J1772 charger that's being installed in Austin.

Good point...

 

[Norbert]

(Another) close-up of the connector:

SAE's stated goal was to create a connector that requires only one plug for both AC and DC charging. For very similar reasons, a smaller and simpler plug should be more practical and preferrable.

 

[Lloyd]

Here's a question I could not get answered while on the tour: At the completion end of the production line there were a series of EVSE's with regular Roadster connectors. These were the regular Tesla HP-70's wth the roadster connection attached. With the new Model S connector introduced "Why were Roadster connectors installed in the Model S factory ?"

 

[TEG]

The Alpha prototypes they had been running around the test track outside definitely had Roadster type sockets for recharging.

Also, I think that new connector may be very new, and might not even be in the betas yet.
I asked a couple people if they could open the charge door on the betas and was denied.
Did anyone actually see a new style socket with pins in it? The only socket I was was in the test box, and it was missing power pins.
Perhaps the betas still have a Roadster socket, or a direct DC for QC in them right now.
For that matter, did anyone actually see any of the 10kW charger boxes? They were absent from all the components I saw around the building. It seems like they opened up and exposed just about everything else in the car except the charging circuits.

 

[TEG]

(Another) close-up of the connector:

 

[TEG]

...SAE's stated goal was to create a connector that requires only one plug for both AC and DC charging. For very similar reasons, a smaller and simpler plug should be more practical and preferrable.

Let's say for instance that Tesla offered the SAE their new system as an open standard...(unlikely)
Would SAE accept it, embrace it and promote it?...(unlikely I think)

Even if it were just about "what is the best technology", I think different entities want to "own" it for licensing and competitive reasons.
The SAE proposal, as ugly, big, and not-yet available as it is does have a benefit that the socket can accept a J-1772 plug for AC charging without any adapter. For that reason alone some may prefer it.

No question the Tesla solution is more comfortable, stylish, & portable, but beyond that you could start to argue merits in different directions.

 

[Norbert]

Let's say for instance that Tesla offered the SAE their new system as an open standard...(unlikely)
Would SAE accept it, embrace it and promote it?...(unlikely I think)

Make a photo of it next to the J1772+DC combo plug, which one would people prefer as customers/users?
Tesla's? Likely.
Does it matter? Yes.

 

[tomsax]

The HPC will be an expensive option because it will also require the second in-car charger. That second charger will only be useful for HPC and for high-power J1772, since the fast DC charging won't need it.

I think 10 kW charging at home is plenty, buying an HPC for home is just silly for most people. We've had one for over two years and 23,000 miles and I've never used it to charge our Roadster above 40A (except for measuring charging efficiency). Away from home is completely different. I've charged at 70A plenty of times on the road, and we've let other Roadster owners passing through town use our garage as a charging station.

If I were buying a Model S, I'd skip the HPC but would get the dual chargers for road trips.

 

[tomsax]

It sounds like a great connector. The question is can they either (a) make it an open, industry standard widely adopted by other automakers or (b) build and maintain their own international charging infrastructure capable of supporting a successful line of mass-market electric vehicles?

Why would they have to do either one? Doesn't a simple adapter answer this question? Am I missing something?

Tesla has a pretty good story on J1772 compatibility, but not for quick charging. I don't see how they can outbuild CHAdeMO (or the SAE standard if that takes off).

Have they EVER had a reasonably priced accessory or adapter for Roadster owners?

Good point.

What happens to Tesla's proprietary strategy when Nissan comes out with an all-electric Infinity sedan that competes head-to-head with the new car from that wacky little car company in California?

If I were a Tesla salesperson, I would love this question. "How long will you have to wait for that Infinity old-technology car to charge when it's limited to 75A? "If you buy a Model S, you can use Tesla's network of Fast Chargers and be back on the road in a third as much time. "Oh, and by the way, you can always use the old-fashioned J-1772 network that Infinity uses if you don't mind waiting around while you charge..."

An Infinity sedan would presumably support CHAdeMO. It's not clear to me that DC Quick Charging will ever happen, but I'll bet it happens first with whatever standard the early market leaders use. There are already 6,500 LEAFs in the US, most with CHAdeMO ports. The only thing that's going to derail CHAdeMO is other automakers gaining larger market share with a different standard. Nissan is set up to start producing 140,000 LEAFs annually, starting next year, all with CHAdeMO ports. I don't think Nissan will be standing still while Tesla gets Model S production started.