What do other EVs do in terms of consumption, range and charging speed compared to Tesla?

[AatdeK]

For the people who are interested in range, energy consumption and charging speed of EV's, I made a spreadsheet of as many EVs available on the eurpean market as possible. This spreadsheet has existed for a few years but I have now made an update to compare the consumption figures of the EVs even better. Earlier it only compensated on temperature but now also on speed. The consumption, range and charging speed are now normalized to 10 degrees Celsius (the average temperature in the Netherlands) and 110km/h. That seems like a nice average speed for the Netherlands as well. But if you want to set other temperatures and or speeds you can download the spreadsheet locally and then you can change what you want. Here is a link to the spreadsheet

 

[parsec]

Thanks! Well done.

 

[Doc_Hudson]

This is really awesome. I was wondering about this type of data (mostly a wh/mi comparison between models) so I could actually compare the difference in efficiency of the EVs on the market. Thank you!!

 

[Avendit]

That wh/km really makes a big statement about the M3. Everything else just can't touch it, which means more charging, or bigger more expensive batteries etc.

 

[Kansalis]

That wh/km really makes a big statement about the M3. Everything else just can't touch it, which means more charging, or bigger more expensive batteries etc.

What you almost never see mentioned is the fact that it's cheaper to run overall. Range & battery size are always the talking points but to me the actual efficiency is more important and impactful. EVs coming to market now with long range trim have plenty of range for my needs, but some are noticeably more expensive to run due to the higher Wh/Mile.

Slapping a bigger battery pack into a less efficient car might make it look good on paper because it has higher range between charges but that's not really a valid selling point IMO.

 

[DrChaos]

What you almost never see mentioned is the fact that it's cheaper to run overall. Range & battery size are always the talking points but to me the actual efficiency is more important and impactful. EVs coming to market now with long range trim have plenty of range for my needs, but some are noticeably more expensive to run due to the higher Wh/Mile.

I've always thought/said something like "Electrical efficiency is the most important parameter buyers will want for their second EV"

 

[Avendit]

And it's not something the media have picked up on at all yet. I guess that comes after the move to EVs is further along.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I love data so I appreciate this.

However efficiency is less of a concern for me, and while it’s not something I’d ignore totally, I’d happily sacrifice some efficiency for more refinement, uprated components etc. I don’t public charge a lot, and at 7.5p per kWh home charging, or between 2 and 3p per mile, the extra 1p per mile on a car that’s 50% less efficient over a 10k miles is £100

It would be great when nobody is really bothered about range and efficiency and we don’t talk about it, when we can do that it means it’s really not an issue.

 

[GSP]

I love data so I appreciate this.

However efficiency is less of a concern for me, and while it’s not something I’d ignore totally, I’d happily sacrifice some efficiency for more refinement, uprated components etc. I don’t public charge a lot, and at 7.5p per kWh home charging, or between 2 and 3p per mile, the extra 1p per mile on a car that’s 50% less efficient over a 10k miles is £100

It would be great when nobody is really bothered about range and efficiency and we don’t talk about it, when we can do that it means it’s really not an issue.

For EVs efficiency provides a lot more than just lower charging cost. Higher efficiency provides more range, shorter charging times, and/or lower battery mass and cost. Lower mass can provide many benefits, such as better handling and acceleration. Look at Mercedes EQXX concept car. It shows how high efficiency can provide true luxury.

GSP

 

[Bouba]

What you almost never see mentioned is the fact that it's cheaper to run overall. Range & battery size are always the talking points but to me the actual efficiency is more important and impactful. EVs coming to market now with long range trim have plenty of range for my needs, but some are noticeably more expensive to run due to the higher Wh/Mile.

Slapping a bigger battery pack into a less efficient car might make it look good on paper because it has higher range between charges but that's not really a valid selling point IMO.

Exactly.....once the bigger battery is installed, the car is heavier, then everything has to be up rated to account for this, and it becomes heavier still.
We understand this, I suspect so do most people....what absolutely floors me is that Porsche don’t get it....Porsche who have been making sports cars forever...the slap in a bigger battery mentality from them of all manufacturers just defies logic....it’s ok in a Mercedes, that was a boat to start with...by turning it into a barge they haven’t lost much...but Porsche ?

 

[Adopado]

Another factor affecting cost of ownership is required servicing. Some brands of EV still impose servicing requirements which must be met to maintain warranty.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

For EVs efficiency provides a lot more than just lower charging cost. Higher efficiency provides more range, shorter charging times, and/or lower battery mass and cost. Lower mass can provide many benefits, such as better handling and acceleration. Look at Mercedes EQXX concept car. It shows how high efficiency can provide true luxury.

GSP

Most of those things are the topics that people throw at EVs and why they claim they’re not suitable. My point is I can’t wait until it’s not even worthy of conversation. ICE owners sometimes talk about how the latest 911 is heavier than the last, but nobody really talks about the size of the petrol tank or how far you can go on a tankful except at the extremes. You’re in the pub and someone talks to you about EVs, the answer to ‘what about range/efficiency etc” could either be ‘no idea, it’s just not an issue’ or ‘here’s a spreadsheet where you can see a Model Y on 19” wheels is 3% more efficient than the 20” wheels..” as if that 3% was crucial

 

[DrChaos]

Exactly.....once the bigger battery is installed, the car is heavier, then everything has to be up rated to account for this, and it becomes heavier still.
We understand this, I suspect so do most people....what absolutely floors me is that Porsche don’t get it....Porsche who have been making sports cars forever...the slap in a bigger battery mentality from them of all manufacturers just defies logic....it’s ok in a Mercedes, that was a boat to start with...by turning it into a barge they haven’t lost much...but Porsche ?

I'm sure Porsche does understand very well, but they aren't able to accomplish it yet. And all reports are that the Taycan has excellent handling feel despite the mass. It's not a sports car like 911 or 718 but very good for its size. They are making an electric Cayman class so they will be trying.

Also there is a tension between efficiency and high speed handling to some degree as extremely slick aerodynamics doesn't provide downforce and German Porsche buyers expect high speed capability as traditional.

In fact, buying Lucid or its technology at least would be a great move by Porsche. The VW corporate EV platforms just aren't that great.

 

[Whyone]

......

In fact, buying Lucid or its technology at least would be a great move by Porsche. The VW corporate EV platforms just aren't that great.

Isn't this why VW are throwing up to $5 billion at Rivian?

 

[Bouba]

Isn't this why VW are throwing up to $5 billion at Rivian?

If a Porsche is porker it might as well be a truck

 

[DrChaos]

Isn't this why VW are throwing up to $5 billion at Rivian?

Possibly. VW is introducing a Scout brand which would be 'adventure trucks & SUVs' directly paralleling Rivian. The simplest way to start that would be to rebadge Rivians with a styling change.

but Lucid is the one with the best efficiency technology, even higher than Tesla. That means excellent motors, inverters and aerodynamics.

 

[GSP]

Exactly.....once the bigger battery is installed, the car is heavier, then everything has to be up rated to account for this, and it becomes heavier still.
We understand this, I suspect so do most people....what absolutely floors me is that Porsche don’t get it....Porsche who have been making sports cars forever...the slap in a bigger battery mentality from them of all manufacturers just defies logic....it’s ok in a Mercedes, that was a boat to start with...by turning it into a barge they haven’t lost much...but Porsche ?

IIRC, Porsche CEO Oliver Blume has stated that Mercedes EQXX shows the way for future EVs, with efficiency being very impactful to a positive customer experience. Quite a concession to a major competitor. Hopefully we will see greatly increased efficiency in future Porsche EVs.

GSP

 

[GSP]

Most of those things are the topics that people throw at EVs and why they claim they’re not suitable. My point is I can’t wait until it’s not even worthy of conversation. ICE owners sometimes talk about how the latest 911 is heavier than the last, but nobody really talks about the size of the petrol tank or how far you can go on a tankful except at the extremes. You’re in the pub and someone talks to you about EVs, the answer to ‘what about range/efficiency etc” could either be ‘no idea, it’s just not an issue’ or ‘here’s a spreadsheet where you can see a Model Y on 19” wheels is 3% more efficient than the 20” wheels..” as if that 3% was crucial

IMO Bjørn Nyland has good take on this. For ICE increasing engine power was expensive, but adding range was not. As a result high power cars had more status, and people rarely mentioned or thought about range. For EVs, increasing range is expensive, but adding power is not. As a result long range EVs have more status. People still talk about power and acceleration today, but once EVs become the norm power will probably be rarely mentioned or thought about.

GSP

 

[DrChaos]

IMO Bjørn Nyland has good take on this. For ICE increasing engine power was expensive, but adding range was not. As a result high power cars had more status, and people rarely mentioned or thought about range. For EVs, increasing range is expensive, but adding power is not. As a result long range EVs have more status. People still talk about power and acceleration today, but once EVs become the norm power will probably be rarely mentioned or thought about.

The manufacturers still haven't fully gotten this message---they still always make less efficient larger wheels standard with the upper trims. GM is still doing it like it's 1992, except average wheel size is 20 instead of 15.

The Chevy Equinox has 20" or 21" wheels with 21 only on all but the basic lines. 21"?? On a Camry people mover? Insane.

 

[Avendit]

Tesla is just as bad. If I could get a non pup Y I may have by now. Really don't want the range reducing 21"ers, but anything less than the p will feel pedestrian after the M3 p-