What do you think is causing the limited tow capability of the new Cybertruck?

[buckets0fun]

But there is plenty of spaces for me to park and detach my traile and another space for the car?

Yes. There are. Think about others using the establishment with trailers, this isn’t uniquely a cybertruck/X/EV with trailer problem. You’d be lucky to only have to stop for 45min with a CT/EV truck every 2hrs.

Let’s face it until energy density is there, EV towing is very much a “rich person’s plaything”. The charge time involved in EV towing w/ 800-1200+Wh/mi vs diesel (@ mid 20s mpg for an AT4 with 12k lbs behind it) or even petrol (10mpg with 6k lbs behind it) will never make it worth of these mythical ‘loaded across state lines’ trips.

Retired individuals will find it nice with the lack of maintenance vs similar (~7k lb, 100k$ Denali/loaded ram) trucks, at the expense of waiting at chargers.

 

[MP3Mike]

But there is plenty of spaces for me to park and detach my traile and another space for the car? Can make a rocket land vertically but charging with a trailer is a bridge too far?

You are dealing with a lot of state/county/city/etc requirements on parking lot regulations. And often it is a problem to remove any parking spots and remain in compliance. They can't take two parking spots and turn it in to one charging stall without dropping below the minimum number of required parking spots. (Business tend to only make the parking lots as big as they are required to, so there isn't a lot of excess spots available. Why waste the space on parking if they can fit another tenant in to make more space leasing revenue.)

Also, in a lot of cases the site host only wants to make parking spaces on the outside edge available. Or they don't want to encourage trailers in their parking lot. So, Tesla is pretty limited in what site hosts, and local regulations, will allow. (There isn't a lot of real estate available to build out green field charger sites.)

 

[mongo]

But there is plenty of spaces for me to park and detach my traile and another space for the car? Can make a rocket land vertically but charging with a trailer is a bridge too far?

Yes, because you can double park your trailer in the field of spots.

 

[buckets0fun]

You are dealing with a lot of state/county/city/etc requirements on parking lot regulations. And often it is a problem to remove any parking spots and remain in compliance. They can't take two parking spots and turn it in to one charging stall without dropping below the minimum number of required parking spots. (Business tend to only make the parking lots as big as they are required to, so there isn't a lot of excess spots available. Why waste the space on parking if they can fit another tenant in to make more space leasing revenue.)

Also, in a lot of cases the site host only wants to make parking spaces on the outside edge available. Or they don't want to encourage trailers in their parking lot. So, Tesla is pretty limited in what site hosts, and local regulations, will allow. (There isn't a lot of real estate available to build out green field charger sites.)

A data point and one of the very few things Rivian did well was rolling out their ‘Rivian Adventure Network’ as all of the locations (most? 90%+?) have dedicated trailer charger, parking. Chargeport location also seems to help this, firm believer in all EV tow vehicles needing to have ‘Leaf style’ port location.

 

[MP3Mike]

A data point and one of the very few things Rivian did well was rolling out their ‘Rivian Adventure Network’ as all of the locations (most? 90%+?) have dedicated trailer charger, parking.

I agree Rivian has done good on that, but just to be clear, I haven't seen more than one trailer friendly stall at one of their locations. (Normally just one stall out of 6.)

If as many people are towing as people here claim, that isn't going to go very far, especially after they open the RAN to all EVs.

Tesla should have tried to do the same, having at least one trailer friendly stall per site.

 

[sublimejackman]

Yes, because you can double park your trailer in the field of spots.

Then put the chargers there!! What? Am I taking crazy pills. The mental gymnastics required to suggest that detatching the trailer and taking the same amount of space as placing the charger where a detatchment wouldn't be nescessary is nothing short of stunning.

 

[sublimejackman]

You are dealing with a lot of state/county/city/etc requirements on parking lot regulations. And often it is a problem to remove any parking spots and remain in compliance. They can't take two parking spots and turn it in to one charging stall without dropping below the minimum number of required parking spots. (Business tend to only make the parking lots as big as they are required to, so there isn't a lot of excess spots available. Why waste the space on parking if they can fit another tenant in to make more space leasing revenue.)

Also, in a lot of cases the site host only wants to make parking spaces on the outside edge available. Or they don't want to encourage trailers in their parking lot. So, Tesla is pretty limited in what site hosts, and local regulations, will allow. (There isn't a lot of real estate available to build out green field charger sites.)

Where are you supercharging?! I guess if you're in the city, that's an issue. But in the middle of Ohio or on intersates?! C'mon. This isn't a real argument. This is just blind devotion.

 

[MP3Mike]

Then put the chargers there!! What? Am I taking crazy pills. The mental gymnastics required to suggest that detatching the trailer and taking the same amount of space as placing the charger where a detatchment wouldn't be nescessary is nothing short of stunning.

It's all about regulations. If you take two parking spots and make one charging stall, you have removed a parking spot 100% of the time. Leaving the spots but allowing people to drop trailers in them when they are charging isn't reducing the number of parking spots so it doesn't run afoul of regulations.

 

[sublimejackman]

Yes. There are. Think about others using the establishment with trailers, this isn’t uniquely a cybertruck/X/EV with trailer problem. You’d be lucky to only have to stop for 45min with a CT/EV truck every 2hrs.

Let’s face it until energy density is there, EV towing is very much a “rich person’s plaything”. The charge time involved in EV towing w/ 800-1200+Wh/mi vs diesel (@ mid 20s mpg for an AT4 with 12k lbs behind it) or even petrol (10mpg with 6k lbs behind it) will never make it worth of these mythical ‘loaded across state lines’ trips.

Retired individuals will find it nice with the lack of maintenance vs similar (~7k lb, 100k$ Denali/loaded ram) trucks, at the expense of waiting at chargers.

Yeah maybe it's not possible with current tech. I really believe they could have produced a truck with a 350mi real world range and 225mi towing range, if they really wanted to. The fact that they didn't even bother trying to get the supercharger network updated before the Cybertruck release makes me believe that this is just a toy and they don't really intend to sell more than 50k - 100k of them in the next few years.

 

[sublimejackman]

It's all about regulations. If you take two parking spots and make one charging stall, you have removed a parking spot 100% of the time. Leaving the spots but allowing people to drop trailers in them when they are charging isn't reducing the number of parking spots so it doesn't run afoul of regulations.

Yep. Looking at that picture, where are they going to park, just packed with cars? I get that SOME places have some regulations, mostly in suburaban sprawl and cities. But for some strange reason doubt there is parking regulations at the Best Western Clevleand Convention Center Airport that prevents superchargers from taking up too much space... madness. Really

 

[buckets0fun]

I agree Rivian has done good on that, but just to be clear, I haven't seen more than one trailer friendly stall at one of their locations. (Normally just one stall out of 6.)

If as many people are towing as people here claim, that isn't going to go very far, especially after they open the RAN to all EVs.

Tesla should have tried to do the same, having at least one trailer friendly stall per site.

Yep, only one per location.

Was fun when 3 of us were at a location last summer. One chose to disconnect.

 

[mongo]

Then put the chargers there!! What? Am I taking crazy pills. The mental gymnastics required to suggest that detatching the trailer and taking the same amount of space as placing the charger where a detatchment wouldn't be nescessary is nothing short of stunning.

Ok, show me where they can put a charger such that a Cybertruck with a 30 foot trailer can charge without blocking the lanes or taking up 6 spots.
There is a huge difference between one object over 2 parking spaces long and two objects neither of which is more that 2 spots long.

 

[buckets0fun]

Yeah maybe it's not possible with current tech. I really believe they could have produced a truck with a 350mi real world range and 225mi towing range, if they really wanted to. The fact that they didn't even bother trying to get the supercharger network updated before the Cybertruck release makes me believe that this is just a toy and they don't really intend to sell more than 50k - 100k of them in the next few years.

If they banked the whole product on 10% conversion rate from preorders, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Your math 350/225 doesn’t check out. 350/175 does and wouldn’t be surprised if we saw that in a few quarters when the range extender hits the public. 7800@178 will be my guess.

 

[buckets0fun]

Ok, show me where they can put a charger such that a Cybertruck with a 30 foot trailer can charge without blocking the lanes or taking up 6 spots.
There is a huge difference between one object over 2 parking spaces long and two objects neither of which is more that 2 spots long.

I want to see the mythical 30ft 11k lb trailer that someone thinks they’ll be towing with the CT.

So far we’ve seen the owner base doesn’t quite have the greatest sense of awareness towards weather, hopefully they understand tongue weight.

 

[Nack]

Yep. Looking at that picture, where are they going to park, just packed with cars? I get that SOME places have some regulations, mostly in suburaban sprawl and cities. But for some strange reason doubt there is parking regulations at the Best Western Clevleand Convention Center Airport that prevents superchargers from taking up too much space... madness. Really

You would probably be surprised. In a long distant past I designed parking lots for retail structures all over the US. Its always about the number of parking spots to meet the minimum while maximizing available building footprint (and having the appropriate level of landscaping area). This is also why you tend to see a lot of "compact" spots, even in areas where most of the locals drive bigger rigs. They know people will just park over the lines, but you need to provide the correct number of spots....whether or not people use them appropriately.

 

[mongo]

I want to see the mythical 30ft 11k lb trailer that someone thinks they’ll be towing with the CT.

So far we’ve seen the owner base doesn’t quite have the greatest sense of awareness towards weather, hopefully they understand tongue weight.

I was rounding down for simplicity, it's more like 34...
Also <10k pounds.

 

[buckets0fun]

I was rounding down for simplicity, it's more like 34...
Also <10k pounds.
View attachment 1007481

ok, this makes a bit more sense. ~10k gvwr

Someone is looking into one of these and is complaining over anything with the CT? The aero hit with this and any EV truck will destroy your sanity. On any magical tire inflated to any magical psi over recommended.

Zinger Travel Trailers - ZR299RE Floorplan | Crossroads RV

Review the Zinger ZR299RE floorplan.

www.crossroadsrv.com

Please understand that corrugated travel trailers (and *most* travel trailers in general) are absolutely the worst quality high dollar items you’ll ever purchase.

 

[sublimejackman]

If they banked the whole product on 10% conversion rate from preorders, I wouldn’t be surprised.

Your math 350/225 doesn’t check out. 350/175 does and wouldn’t be surprised if we saw that in a few quarters when the range extender hits the public. 7800@178 will be my guess.

Man. Supercharging with that range extender is gonna suck. Adds a third pack in parallel. Puts charging to 80% at well over an hour...

Also, not entirely convinced that they will even release an extender, even then, is it something I can remove easily. I'm guessing it's bolted down and connected to the rails in a way that allows for 800v discharging? So it's range OR truck bed.

 

[buckets0fun]

So it's range OR truck bed

Again, not a CT only problem.

Gooseneck, fifth wheel, extended fuel tanks have been taking up bed space for decades. Buy that king bed diesel/petrol 3/4ton and enjoy life. Be less stressed on EV towing.

I can’t speak to how the range extender works. I can say that anyone with the illusion of rolling into a supercharger and getting to 80% from 10 or less, in an hour… is a bit removed from reality.

What mi/kWh / Wh/mi are you thinking you’re achieving with a brick on wheels? For the 250+ while towing it the 350+ not.

This isn’t much more than a math problem. We need 1kWh (on average) to travel 1mi while towing at a constant speed on level ground without accounting for the wind in the area or any other factor (hvac, wipers, cooled/heated seats, 12v refrigerator, travel trailer 12v backfeed).
How much money are you looking to spend for the 250kWh cybertruck? how large should it physically be in order to account for this pack? Are you willing to give up 8” of ground clearance for the double stack?

 

[mongo]

Someone is looking into one of these and is complaining over anything with the CT? The aero hit with this and any EV truck will destroy your sanity. On any magical tire inflated to any magical psi over recommended.

I'm not complaining though? Nor planning to convert it to rails...

Please understand that corrugated travel trailers (and *most* travel trailers in general) are absolutely the worst quality high dollar items you’ll ever purchase.

Well, good to know my Cybertruck isn't the worst high dollar purchase I'll ever make.
We aren't buying it for the ROI. It's the most feasible way for us to travel.

Man. Supercharging with that range extender is gonna suck. Adds a third pack in parallel. Puts charging to 80% at well over an hour...

Extender should only increase charge time if the charger power is maxed out.

Are you willing to give up 8” of ground clearance for the double stack?

Why 8" to package a 3.15" tall cell? I'm guessing 5 inches max if part of an existing pack.