What do you think of the Tesla lawsuit regarding EPA mileage?

[foxwiz5262]

This is in the news as of yesterday I believe.

• 
  
• Tesla is facing a lawsuit from customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.
• The suit accuses the company of "false advertising," claiming Tesla overvalued the cars.
• The lawsuit cites a Reuters investigation which found the carmaker had exaggerated its cars' range.

Tesla is facing a lawsuit from some customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.

The plaintiffs have accused the electric vehicle company of "false advertising," claiming in court documents Tesla overvalued its cars to consumers.


What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

 

[brkaus]

What do you think about it? Most cars don’t It get their advertised mileage and thus range.

There is lots of info here and elsewhere about what type of range most get under various conditions. If the Y meets your needs, I would see no reason this would change anything.

 

[foxwiz5262]

I am guessing it is probably OK and some people are uppity about not meeting the strict EPA standards.

 

[Tam]

This is in the news as of yesterday I believe.

• 
  
• Tesla is facing a lawsuit from customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.
• The suit accuses the company of "false advertising," claiming Tesla overvalued the cars.
• The lawsuit cites a Reuters investigation which found the carmaker had exaggerated its cars' range.

Tesla is facing a lawsuit from some customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.

The plaintiffs have accused the electric vehicle company of "false advertising," claiming in court documents Tesla overvalued its cars to consumers.


What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

EPA numbers are just laboratory numbers on a dynamometer or a treadmill and not actual driving data obtained from actual drivers.

As long as they stick to the same rules for the treadmill, they are good comparisons among different cars.

An individual driver might drive at extreme temperatures and speeds that are not covered by the laboratory treadmill.

 

[AS9.9.]

Maybe the lawsuit has some basis. The average driver isn't getting anything near EPA range, and the average driver has come from a gas car that gets something near what the MPG shows on the sticker. EPA range itself is a joke, no one really drives 45 mph on a highway (or whatever the heck they test at).

I do think Tesla's advertised ranges are comical given what happens during cold / hot temps, and I do not think the average person is expecting to see a 25%+ range drop in certain weather. Only time I can think of that kind of drop in a gas car is if I haven't changed my oil in a year and my AC is blasting on max. Curious to see how this plays out.

 

[GBMaryland]

I’m not even sure that my gas cars suffer range penalties during cold weather anything like the Tesla’s do.

There’s no doubt about the fact that Tesla has absolutely downplayed issues with their vehicles.

 

[SageBrush]

What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

tl;dr: I think it is BS

Longer:
Most customers, and Reuters, do not grasp EPA testing methods. Tesla uses the alternative method that inflates the warm weather result but weights winter driving higher. The usual method does the reverse. Since I live in a 4 season climate, I applaud Tesla for its cold weather performance.

 

[Don.Church]

If range is your primary deciding factor about buying a Y, just view the many YouTube’s that do real world 70 mph range testing and see if that meets your needs.

 

[Dhankx]

This is in the news as of yesterday I believe.

• 
  
• Tesla is facing a lawsuit from customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.
• The suit accuses the company of "false advertising," claiming Tesla overvalued the cars.
• The lawsuit cites a Reuters investigation which found the carmaker had exaggerated its cars' range.

Tesla is facing a lawsuit from some customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.

The plaintiffs have accused the electric vehicle company of "false advertising," claiming in court documents Tesla overvalued its cars to consumers.


What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

As someone who looks for tesla news every day: I think the word Tesla is clickbait and anyone will say anything to get more clicks. You have to learn to tune it out and trust your own experiences/inner circle. I usually ditch cars around 50/60k. My m3p is about at 50k and I absolutely still love it. Longest trips I've taken was from NC to Iowa and NC to the Keys. Was a great experience.

 

[SilentWarp]

Its industry standard practice to use the EPA rating as the advertised range. Of course they would never claim higher than that, and 1000's of YouTube videos show "real world range..". Nothing misleading there. I expect any lawsuit claiming false advertising to get tossed.

 

[zoomer0056]

not meeting the strict EPA standards

What do you mean?

A lawsuit like this couldn't go anywhere. How important is a lawsuit like this when deciding to buy?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla's EPA rating doesn't reflect real-world highway range. Tesla used that. Do what people do in other countries that use even worse tests: ignore those and look up tests by others that will better match with your local and driving pattern.

Especially look for something matching the wheels you'll use because they can make a _big_ difference.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I am guessing it is probably OK and some people are uppity about not meeting the strict EPA standards.

There's a some self-inflicted injury here by Tesla.

By default, they show the current battery status in "EPA miles", so this inherently inaccurate measure is continually pushed out to the driver.

IMHO The people most likely to believe "EPA miles" and most likely to get misled by it, are the same ones least likely to go into the profile and change the display to percentage.

 

[exfed2001]

This is in the news as of yesterday I believe.

• 
  
• Tesla is facing a lawsuit from customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.
• The suit accuses the company of "false advertising," claiming Tesla overvalued the cars.
• The lawsuit cites a Reuters investigation which found the carmaker had exaggerated its cars' range.

Tesla is facing a lawsuit from some customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.

The plaintiffs have accused the electric vehicle company of "false advertising," claiming in court documents Tesla overvalued its cars to consumers.


What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

I bought an MY in 2/23. I have 2300 miles on it and my overall average is 235w/mile. 1000/235=4.255 mile/kW. 4.255x77 kWh posted battery capacity=327.64 miles as a rough estimate.

This is rough as it is a mixture of local and highway driving as well as with intermittent use of heat and A/C on varying terrain.

I take all range estimates with a large handful of salt. I would be confident in buying another Y.

 

[mspohr]

This is in the news as of yesterday I believe.

• 
  
• Tesla is facing a lawsuit from customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.
• The suit accuses the company of "false advertising," claiming Tesla overvalued the cars.
• The lawsuit cites a Reuters investigation which found the carmaker had exaggerated its cars' range.

Tesla is facing a lawsuit from some customers over its vehicles' driving range estimates.

The plaintiffs have accused the electric vehicle company of "false advertising," claiming in court documents Tesla overvalued its cars to consumers.


What do you think of this? I am thinking of buying a Model Y.

EPA has standard procedures for measuring mileage. Manufacturers can use the standard EPA test suite or they can do their own tests but either way the EPA certifies the results.
So sue the EPA.
(Ever seen YMMV? It's everywhere. )

 

[brkaus]

’m not even sure that my gas cars suffer range penalties during cold weather anything like the Tesla’s do.

No they don’t. One of the reasons a petro car is so inefficient is all the energy lost to heat that is normally expelled through the radiator. In the winter it’s just put back into the cabin instead of outdoors.

Heck, I wonder if I’m extreme cold areas it would make sense to have a petro based heater. Those can be very efficient.

 

[Whatstreet]

The range varies with the circumstances. I think the only way they have a case is if they can prove fraudulent data or procedure.

 

[SageBrush]

No they don’t. One of the reasons a petro car is so inefficient is all the energy lost to heat that is normally expelled through the radiator. In the winter it’s just put back into the cabin instead of outdoors.

Heck, I wonder if I’m extreme cold areas it would make sense to have a petro based heater. Those can be very efficient.

This is an area where Tesla is unfairly judged by both the EPA and most testing routines. In truly long distance driving, the DC fast charging losses that occur collect in the battery and then are used for cabin heating. From the POV of the driver, this is "free" winter heating, in the sense that car range is much less affected because battery heat rather than battery kWh are being used.

So far as I know, Tesla is the only car company to scavenge DC charging related heat in this way and it is a huge winter performance gap compared to other EVs. This advantage will go unnoticed by the EPA and most 'real world' testing routines until they drive far enough to to also require sequential DC charging on the route. Bjorn Nylands '1000 km challenge' is one of the few examples of a proper winter test.

 

[zoomer0056]

the DC fast charging losses that occur collect in the battery

I'm not following. How can losses be collected?

 

[brkaus]

This is an area where Tesla is unfairly judged by both the EPA and most testing routines. In truly long distance driving, the DC fast charging losses that occur collect in the battery and then are used for cabin heating. From the POV of the driver, this is "free" winter heating, in the sense that car range is much less affected because battery heat rather than battery kWh are being used.

So far as I know, Tesla is the only car company to scavenge DC charging related heat in this way and it is a huge winter performance gap compared to other EVs. This advantage will go unnoticed by the EPA and most 'real world' testing routines until they drive far enough to to also require sequential DC charging on the route. Bjorn Nylands '1000 km challenge' is one of the few examples of a proper winter test.

But that only applies to someone that charges and goes (or a long trip with charging stops and few breaks).

Doesn’t change my day to day use at all.