What will separate S from 3?

[newtman]

We don't know longer range, until we know battery options on the M3. For all we know, M3 might have higher range.
We don't know the MS seats will be more comfortable or not. Maybe even same front seats?

Given that the frame will be steel vs aluminum, and the physical space allocated to the battery will be smaller, and with the much lower price point, it's highly unlikely 3 will have as good or better range to the S.

At least one of the video reviews of the 3 preview said the seats were ok but not as plush as the S.

 

[newtman]

You can't disagree, because this is a fact (and was part of Elon's Tesla Master Plan)...

Margins are 20%+ on the current vehicles. Tesla is operating at a loss due to investment (research, infrastructure, gigafactory, etc), not due to Model S production. The R&D for the Model 3 is nearly complete already meaning it's been paid for.

He's never stated that the S is paying for the 3. The S is paying for the buildout of the company and factory that will allow for the 3 to be built.

 

[Phoenixhawk101]

the Model 3 will not be limited, just to keep it 'less than' the Model S. EM tweets have already stated equiv options available on the S will cost less on the 3.
Car companies have multiple models because customers want different things in cars. Some want a full sized, some want a compact or midsize, some want a sports coupe... It's ok to have more than one option and not have one segment eat into another.

This is somewhat my point. Everything Elon and Tesla have been putting out there is that the M3 will have Everything that the MS has. Yes you could argue that size is a differentiator and when it was original discussed as being 20% smaller than MS that made complete sense. But the latest Motor Trend report where they measure the car shows that it's almost the exact same size (10% overall reduction). So sure you can say the advantage of MS is that it is here now. But my question was when M3 does come what will keep the MS as the flagship car if the M3 is going to have the same features at a lower price point and only be slightly smaller?

I keep expecting to hear something like Supercharger is free for MS/MX only, or that M3 will max out at 240 miles, or something significant to warrant the additional 20-30k asking price for MS. Currently I could get a base MS 70D for about 75k, but in 2 years I could get base M3 which so far will have almost all the same features as a base MS 70D and will likely cost about $40k. A $35k loss in vehicle value over 2 years is a lot. So why should I buy a MS?

 

[NoTDI]

This is somewhat my point. Everything Elon and Tesla have been putting out there is that the M3 will have Everything that the MS has. Yes you could argue that size is a differentiator and when it was original discussed as being 20% smaller than MS that made complete sense. But the latest Motor Trend report where they measure the car shows that it's almost the exact same size (10% overall reduction). So sure you can say the advantage of MS is that it is here now. But my question was when M3 does come what will keep the MS as the flagship car if the M3 is going to have the same features at a lower price point and only be slightly smaller?

I keep expecting to hear something like Supercharger is free for MS/MX only, or that M3 will max out at 240 miles, or something significant to warrant the additional 20-30k asking price for MS. Currently I could get a base MS 70D for about 75k, but in 2 years I could get base M3 which so far will have almost all the same features as a base MS 70D and will likely cost about $40k. A $35k loss in vehicle value over 2 years is a lot. So why should I buy a MS?

I agree there is no way the $35k M3 has equal standard equipment as the MS. Everybody seems to think tesla is going to make a magical car so cheap. I for one hope they can deliver this by so much innovation that would cut the cost of production so much that they can afford to provide features that main stream manufacturers cannot produce for this price range such as no instrument panel, inovative hvac, one piece glass,etc.

 

[zenmaster]

Given that the frame will be steel vs aluminum, and the physical space allocated to the battery will be smaller, and with the much lower price point, it's highly unlikely 3 will have as good or better range to the S.

Price point is utterly irrelevant as Tesla has other competition in same price range to consider and people will pay for it. The weight of the 3 is ~1000lbs less than the S. This means that the 3 will always be able to travel at least 23% further when using the same battery capacity. However, this figure is likely to be closer to 25% due to the smaller drag coefficient x frontal area. So it merely comes down to storage volume provided for the Model 3 battery, which we do not know at this point.

 

[zenmaster]

Everybody seems to think tesla is going to make a magical car so cheap.

I thought they were going to make a magical car so cheap.

 

[JeffK]

I had planned to add the unicorn hide option for the seats... what are you guys saying? Is there going to be no unicorn hide option?!

 

[ChooseGreen]

Let us not forget how much the Model S has advanced in the past 18 months; even during a time when there was a lot to do on the X, development on the 3 and everything else they have been up to. I think Tesla will continue to add features to both the S and X. After Part 2 of the reveal, there may be some announcements of features that have already been added to the S and X and either will be unlocked by software upgrade or unlock payment.

 

[newtman]

Price point is utterly irrelevant as Tesla has other competition in same price range to consider and people will pay for it. The weight of the 3 is ~1000lbs less than the S. This means that the 3 will always be able to travel at least 23% further when using the same battery capacity. However, this figure is likely to be closer to 25% due to the smaller drag coefficient x frontal area. So it merely comes down to storage volume provided for the Model 3 battery, which we do not know at this point.

Lol, no price point is not irrelevant when it comes to considering the what specs will differ between the S and 3.

 

[kort677]

IMHO I think the S will be phased out once the 3 hits full stride production.

 

[NoTDI]

IMHO I think the S will be phased out once the 3 hits full stride production.

Why it already out sells the big sedans from Germany in US?

 

[2early4flapjacks]

I wonder if on the Jeep forums people discuss the Jeep Cherokee replacing the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Same features right?

S will be the S and the 3 will be the 3.

 

[jkk_]

I keep expecting to hear something like Supercharger is free for MS/MX only, or that M3 will max out at 240 miles

(emphasis mine) So instead of pushing for the adaption of EVs let's just keep people buying ICEs..?

 

[Snowcat]

I think size and luxery should be decoupled. It would be a fundamental change in the industry. People should be able to simply choose the size they need, then choose the options they want.

I don't need a huge car but I do want some luxeries. Companies want to upsell you to a bigger and more expensive car because they make bigger profits on those and it increases their average selling price which they usually like.
It's not that easy to find a decent luxury car that isn't huge. Although I must admit a few brands are finally starting to get it.

Compare it to iPhones, Macs and iPads (though internal volume is obviously a more limiting factor here): why do I need to choose the models with the biggest screen size to get the best options? I don't want a huge iPhone but I do want the best camera and higher storage option. The other way around for a Mac, I want a 15 inch screen but don't need the maxed out processor. Does big need to be pro and does pro need to be big? (Again there is a limited valid argument about volume constraints and energy requirements as you have with a bigger car that can cary a bigger battery)

So the answer to the question what will/should differentiate the model s from the model 3 is very simple: SIZE.
And that is how it should be!
Size and luxury should (and in this technologically advanced age can) be independent choices. And I really hope Elon will implement this!

To compensate for the loss in profits from upselling, a company should focus on highly efficient production. I was very happy when Tesla announced that the key focus for the company now is to be innovative and push the boundaries of production efficiency. Which is exactly what they should be doing to achieve their goal of accelerating global adoption of EVs.

 

[Laban]

I wonder if on the Jeep forums people discuss the Jeep Cherokee replacing the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Same features right?

S will be the S and the 3 will be the 3.

Exactly. Or why buy the Audi A8 when you can get the A7 instead, wait,A6,A5,A4, .. i mean A3. They all have a steering wheel and will get you from A to B.

 

[wdolson]

IMHO I think the S will be phased out once the 3 hits full stride production.

I doubt it will be phased out, but they might have a price decrease to reflect the difference in value between the top tier and mainstream cars. The Model S/X platform will always have more battery space, so whatever battery capacities are available for the Model 3, the Model S/X will always have more range possible. The PxxD Model S/X will also be the better performer for those who want the closest thing they can have to a supercar.

As others have said, I also expect Tesla will also use the S/X platforms to roll out all new tech and it will trickle down to the lower end cars once it begins to become blase on the top tier cars. It makes sense to roll out these technologies on the high end cars first. They are lower production rate cars and if a problem crops up with the new that requires the entire fleet to visit a service center, there are fewer cars that need to get fixed.

 

[zenmaster]

Lol, no price point is not irrelevant when it comes to considering the what specs will differ between the S and 3.

Lol, did you bother to read the discussion?

 

[Laban]

I doubt it will be phased out, but they might have a price decrease to reflect the difference in value between the top tier and mainstream cars

I doubt that they will lower the price for the Model S. It seems to do just fine compared to it's current competition (Audi A8 and so forth) so why lower it ?

I'm guessing that they will make the Model S even more high-end, better interior and so forth, and keep the price as it is. Then perhaps add a model between the 3 and the S based on the 3 platform, 10-15 cm longer.

 

[zenmaster]

perhaps add a model between the 3 and the S based on the 3 platform, 10-15 cm longer.

my guess would be an even smaller car, like a 4 seater coupe as these are gaining in popularity according to relative sales volume vs 3-series. This would be something like the BMW 2-series, Audi A3, etc.

 

[NoTDI]

I think M3's length is already A3 size but the interior space is A4 size.