When can we expect to see a CCS Adapter for the Model S?

[T.R.T.e.s.l.a.]

Folks in the Netherlands received a mail from Tesla proposing the upgrade for 500€.
I scheduled this upgrade in the app. I’ll report if it is any different here (which would be a surprise for a neighboring country.)

Ah! I thought there was a special lower price going on now.
That's why payed when had the CCS retrofit on my S85, as soon as it came out.

 

[PhilDavid]

Besides what was already mentioned w/most public charging in the US being AC J1772 charging, disagree with your last statement.

In the US, only (VW-owned) Electrify America is stacking the deck in favor of their own vehicles (e.g. VW, Audi, Porsche). In the US, I don't know of any other major charging provider which provides non-Tesla DC FCing that is intentionally screwing CHAdeMO they way they are. Everyone else (outside of Tesla, brand-specific car dealers or automaker's offices) is installing a pretty even mix at a given location.

Sure, there are some sites that are CHAdeMO only and some that are SAE Combo only, but those are fairly rare. And of the latter, those tend to be these wimpy 24 kW units: ChargePoint Express 100 - ChargePoint like PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You, PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You and PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You.

Charging rate is measured in kW, a unit of power, not "KWH". Energy is measured in kWh.

No shipping Teslas have 140 or 190 kWh batteries.

Electrify America is not just VW. It includes all the following and others may join us as well. In fact if I were to buy a CCS Adapter, it would be specifically for the Electrify America Network. Next to the Tesla Supercharger network, I feel the Electrify America Network would be the most widely available and robust network for EV charging since it is managed and owned by one organization and is built from the ground up with fast charging in mind.

At the end of the day if you travel a lot to out of the way places, I'm sure you would appreciate having the OPTION to use the Electrify America Network.

• Audi of America
• BYTON
• Fisker
• Ford Motor Company
• Harley-Davidson
• Hyundai Motor Company
• KIA Motors
• Lucid Motors
• Porsche Cars North America
  
  

 

[ucmndd]

Electrify America is not just VW. It includes all the following and others may join us as well.

First, two of the “others” are wholly-owned VW subsidiaries.

Second, while you’re right that other manufacturers can sign on for discounts, billing agreements, etc - the company itself is a wholly-owned VW subsidiary and all of the infrastructure and assets belong to them.

At the end of the day if you travel a lot to out of the way places, I'm sure you would appreciate having the OPTION to use the Electrify America network.

What “out of the way” place are you planning to travel to that has an EA station anywhere nearby?

Basically all of their stations are along the same corridors as the Supercharger network and within 10 miles of one.

Options are great, of course. But I’ve driven all over the Western US and have never once thought “wow, sure wish I could pay a whole lot more for a crappy experience to charge here instead of the supercharger down the road”.

 

[TravelFree]

Options are great, of course. But I’ve driven all over the Western US and have never once thought “wow, sure wish I could pay a whole lot more for a crappy experience to charge here instead of the supercharger down the road”.

Agree! While I won't argue with anyone who wants to have a backup to Tesla. Probably having a J1772 adapter is the best for your money and Tesla gives us one of those in the kit. The guy who does those Road Trip videos convinced me to get the Chademo adapter as there was one route he did that had no Tesla chargers and a few minutes on Chademo got him to the next Supercharger beyond his range, otherwise he would have had to drive pretty far out of his way just to have Superchargers along the way. I tested mine on EVGo and it worked fine, even with my free charge card from Nissan. (Don't tell them)

My home charger is a J1772 plug so I charge at home with the adapter on the Tesla and direct on the Leaf.. I don't see any benefit to adding a Tesla home charger too.

 

[cwerdna]

Electrify America is not just VW. It includes all the following and others may join us as well.

No. EA is per Electrify America NEWSROOM and many others "Electrify America is a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America, Inc." It was part of their penance for dieselgate. Look it up yourself. There are many many articles on this.

VW brands with plug-in vehicles in the US include Audi, VW, Porsche and Bentley (Volkswagen Group).

It seems the odds would be a lot lower in the US that the deck would be stacked this way to screw CHAdeMO if EA hadn't existed. As I said, I know of no other major non-Tesla charging DC FC provider in the US which has such skewed ratios for their installations.

Ford isn't even shipping any DC FC-capable cars in the US now. Ditto for Byton, Lucid Motors, and Fisker. The only reason for the agreement with HyunKia is because people w/their EVs were getting completely screwed by EA's pricing structure. Their cars would respond that they could charge at over 75 kW but don't actually go that high but they'd be charged say 69 cents/minute for 1-125 kW instead of 25 cents/minute for 1-75 kW. So, HyunKia users would either pay VERY dearly or avoid EA chargers like the plague until they came up with another plan:
Electrify America's 'Hyundai Select Plan' Addresses Pricing Issue
Electrify America Offers Kia Select Plan To Reconcile Kia Pricing Issue

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Gotta "love" the disagree. EA's crap pricing policy that affected HyunKia's are the cause of check-ins like this from https://www.plugshare.com/location/193054
"Jk
Hyundai Ioniq Electric
It charged me $0.50/min even if it was below 75kW. Please fix this problem!"

Per Pricing and membership for EV charging | Electrify America, for California, 50 cents/minute is the Pass+ 1-125 kW price.

Besides EA's own press releases, don't believe me? See these:
VW's $2 billion penalty for diesel scam, Electrify America, builds electric charging network across US to boost EV market
Electrify America is VW’s new company born out of Dieselgate
Volkswagen Clean Air Act Civil Settlement | US EPA

The CAA 2.0 liter partial settlement requires Volkswagen to invest $2 billion in ZEV charging infrastructure and in the promotion of ZEVs. The ZEV investments required by the CAA 2.0 liter partial settlement are intended to address the fact that consumers purchased these illegal vehicles under the mistaken belief that such vehicles were lower-emitting than others. Electrify America, LLC, was created by Volkswagen Group of America to implement this requirement.

As part of the settlement, Volkswagen has submitted and will continue to submit as required a series of National ZEV Investment plans to EPA for review and approval based on criteria detailed in the consent decree. The settlement also requires that Volkswagen submit ZEV investment plans to California for the money to be spent in that state. The plans can be found here: Our Zero Emission Vehicle investment plan | Electrify America.

BTW, Harley also sells DC FC-capable automobiles in the US, only an electric motorcycle.

 

[PhilDavid]

Agree! While I won't argue with anyone who wants to have a backup to Tesla. Probably having a J1772 adapter is the best for your money and Tesla gives us one of those in the kit. The guy who does those Road Trip videos convinced me to get the Chademo adapter as there was one route he did that had no Tesla chargers and a few minutes on Chademo got him to the next Supercharger beyond his range, otherwise he would have had to drive pretty far out of his way just to have Superchargers along the way. I tested mine on EVGo and it worked fine, even with my free charge card from Nissan. (Don't tell them)

My home charger is a J1772 plug so I charge at home with the adapter on the Tesla and direct on the Leaf.. I don't see any benefit to adding a Tesla home charger too.

Has anyone seen any stats about how AC vs DC charging affects battery longevity?

Is it safe to assume that all things being equal, that AC charging is "better" for the battery?

 

[ucmndd]

Has anyone seen any stats about how AC vs DC charging affects battery longevity?

Is it safe to assume that all things being equal, that AC charging is "better" for the battery?

It has nothing to do with AC vs DC. It’s all DC when it enters the battery.

It’s the charge rate.

 

[PhilDavid]

It has nothing to do with AC vs DC. It’s all DC when it enters the battery.

It’s the charge rate.

That makes sense and I guess for most real-world applications the AC charge rate is lower than the DC charge rate.

 

[cwerdna]

No. EA is per Electrify America NEWSROOM and many others "Electrify America is a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen Group of America, Inc." It was part of their penance for dieselgate. Look it up yourself. There are many many articles on this.

VW brands with plug-in vehicles in the US include Audi, VW, Porsche and Bentley (Volkswagen Group).

... The only reason for the agreement with HyunKia is because people w/their EVs were getting completely screwed by EA's pricing structure. Their cars would respond that they could charge at over 75 kW but don't actually go that high but they'd be charged say 69 cents/minute for 1-125 kW instead of 25 cents/minute for 1-75 kW. So, HyunKia users would either pay VERY dearly or avoid EA chargers like the plague until they came up with another plan:
Electrify America's 'Hyundai Select Plan' Addresses Pricing Issue
Electrify America Offers Kia Select Plan To Reconcile Kia Pricing Issue

Watch A 2020 Hyundai Kona Electric Fast Charge From 0 To 80% gives an example of how HyunKia drivers were screwed by EA until the above plans came out.

The Kona Electric is technically able to accept up to 77 kW, however owners rarely ever see their vehicles accept more than 75 kW. And that's a problem when charging on Electrify America's DC fast-charge stations. That's because Electrify America charges by the minute, AND by how much power the vehicle is capable of accepting, not the peak charging rate the vehicle achieves during the charging session.

When a customer initially plugs in their EV, the charging station asks the vehicle how much power it is capable of accepting, and that determines the pricing tier the vehicle is placed in. Therefore, when I plugged in, I was placed in the middle pricing tier and paid $.50 per minute. Hyundai and Electrify America addressed this issue and came up with the Hyundai Select Plan, that Kona owners can join and they will then be charged $.35 per minute.

I couldn't join the Hyundai Select plan because I don't own a Kona Electric, I had this one on a media loan. Since I charged for 52 minutes, I was billed $26.00. Had I been a Hyundai Select member, I would have saved $7.80 and paid $18.20.

He mentions being charged for 55.7 kWh.

$26 for 55.7 kWh -> 46.7 cents/kWh
$18.20 for 55.7 kWh -> 32.7 cents/kWh

In California, Pass+ pricing ($4/mo fee which is currently suspended) per Pricing and membership for EV charging | Electrify America is
50 cents/minute for 1 to 125 kW
18 cents/minute for 1 to 75 kW

So, the pricing in CA (a strong EV market in the US e.g. where we literally have hundreds of Teslas in my work's EV registry and there are 3 Chevy Bolts besides mine visible from the driveway of my house):
$26 vs. $9.36 on Pass+

For Pass (no membership fee), it's a $1 session fee+
69 cents/minute for 1 to 125 kW
25 cents/minute for 1 to 75 kW

So, it'd be $36.88 vs. $14.

That's pretty badly screwed, if you ask me. (My latter prices are based upon if EA didn't screw drivers by basing it on some 77 kW peak rate the car rarely or doesn't achieve and just charged them the 1 to 75 kW rate.)

 

[Saghost]

Watch A 2020 Hyundai Kona Electric Fast Charge From 0 To 80% gives an example of how HyunKia drivers were screwed by EA until the above plans came out.

He mentions being charged for 55.7 kWh.

$26 for 55.7 kWh -> 46.7 cents/kWh
$18.20 for 55.7 kWh -> 32.7 cents/kWh

In California, Pass+ pricing ($4/mo fee which is currently suspended) per Pricing and membership for EV charging | Electrify America is
50 cents/minute for 1 to 125 kW
18 cents/minute for 1 to 75 kW

So, the pricing in CA (a strong EV market in the US e.g. where we literally have hundreds of Teslas in my work's EV registry and there are 3 Chevy Bolts besides mine visible from the driveway of my house):
$26 vs. $9.36 on Pass+

For Pass (no membership fee), it's a $1 session fee+
69 cents/minute for 1 to 125 kW
25 cents/minute for 1 to 75 kW

So, it'd be $36.88 vs. $14.

That's pretty badly screwed, if you ask me. (My latter prices are based upon if EA didn't screw drivers by basing it on some 77 kW peak rate the car rarely or doesn't achieve and just charged them the 1 to 75 kW rate.)

The news articles talk about how great this deal is and how great it is that EA is making this deal.

None of them mention what I was thinking as I read it, what your numbers show - EA is still charging ~50% more for the koreans under their special deal than they’d pay under the published pricing if they reported a max of 75 kW.

 

[cwerdna]

Ok... as much as I hate to say this, it looks like CHAdeMO in the US is basically going to be done given the shocker at Cheerio, CHAdeMO: Nissan adopts CCS fast-charging with new Ariya electric SUV. Japanese Ariya will have CHAdeMO but US version will have CCS!

I suspect new installations w/CHAdeMO in the North America will decline and eventually become a trickle or 0.

Maybe we'll finally see CCS adapters/retrofits for North American Teslas sooner than later?

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Ok... as much as I hate to say this, it looks like CHAdeMO in the US is basically going to be done given the shocker at Cheerio, CHAdeMO: Nissan adopts CCS fast-charging with new Ariya electric SUV. Japanese Ariya will have CHAdeMO but US version will have CCS!

I suspect new installations w/CHAdeMO in the North America will decline and eventually become a trickle or 0.

Maybe we'll finally see CCS adapters/retrofits for North American Teslas sooner than later?

A CCS adapter would be nice. Having said that, the majority of EV’s on the road in North America support Chademo including the Tesla and Leaf. I suspect Chademo sites new and future will continue to see support for awhile yet. 3 or 4 years???? Look at the user list on plug share in places like BC and Tesla’s and leaf’s are probably the number one and number two check ins. Any sudden shut down of Chademo would essentially hamstring EV usage here.

A 100 KW CCS adapter from Tesla would be a nice addition right about now though.