When you sell a Tesla does FSD stay with the car?

[PVEaglesFan]

When I go look at the Tesla site they are selling existing inventory aka used cars for more than new at least for the model 3. I also understand that if you trade in to Tesla you get nothing for the FSD.

If you sell a Tesla with FSD privately does the FSD go with car. I know it does not stay with you.

I have a white 2019 Model 3 long range 18 inch wheels with FSD. While I basically love the car see about many many white 3's in SoCal and would like to change to red or blue.
Best way to sell way the current car? Should I order what I want, wait until I get it, then sell the white car?

Thanks

 

[jjrandorin]

Best way to sell your car is the same way you would sell any other car. right now, carvana and vroom seem to be giving good pricing.

FSD goes with the car. if you sell the car to another person directly, they get to keep it.

if you sell it to a car dealership, they may or may not get to keep it, but it really doesnt matter to you at that point, so its immaterial.

The "best" way depends.. most money (and hassle) will be private party between you and a buyer, and this is in general a fairly large transaction worth multiple 10s of thousands of dollars.

The "easiest" way is through some place like carvana or vroom, which will give you a price (thus answering the "expected price" question.

=============================

(moderator note: I removed " expected price?" from your questions above, because I thought you might want this post here instead of the "want to sell" section, where I would have moved it because thats where "how much should I sell this for" posts go. I also changed the thread title to reflect the question you are asking (that isnt related to pricing the vehicle).

If you want to discuss how much to potentially sell it for, post that separately in the want to sell section, or scan that section for what others are attempting to sell for.

Tesla for Sale

Place to post For sale, Wanted, and For trade listings for used Tesla vehicles

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[medphys3]

Keep it and get a wrap.

 

[Stingray.Don]

Purchased FSD stays with the car. The only exception would be if the car is traded in to Tesla or purchased by Tesla. If Tesla owns it, they can do what they want with it. Having said that, judging by the number of used cars with FSD on Tesla’s website, I assume they do not typically remove FSD.

 

[IChillinz]

Bought mine from Tesla site used and it came with FSD and acceleration boost included. Got it for a great price back in March. Now prices are selling through the roof on their site. Glad I got it then. Supply and Demand principle is real!

Ive watched used Tesla prices for a good year or so. Earlier last year you saw Teslas with basic auto pilot, no Acceleration boost, others with FSD and no Acceleration boost. Others with Both. Seemed like it varied on who actually purchased it for each car.

Then later part of last year I noticed they started including FSD and and acceleration boost with all of the used model 3’s.

Then in Jan they started having a few with regular AP but still acceleration boost. And others with FSD and excelleration boost. Seems they still throw in excelleration boost.

Prices were still decent and seemed you could get one with FSD and acceleration boost but the full cost of 12,000 was kind of worked into the price and some what absorbed into the value of car so didnt feel like you had full cost in the price.

But now I’m thinking this chip shortage is def taking an effect and trickling down. There isnt many used Teslas on the site and prices are 5000-8000 more then what they were few months ago. Crazy.

 

[IChillinz]

Keep it and get a wrap.

Honestly this sounds like a good idea. I know a wrap isnt that cheap but for the money you’ll loose from selling your current one and cost of taxes and title transfer, would probably cost more then just getting your’s wrapped.

 

[ODWms]

I was going to say the same. Wrapped is the way to go, with far less hassle, and presumably less cost to you.

 

[charlieaf92]

It stays with the car/vin (confirmed by chatting with Tesla support). I was worried about this when purchasing a used Tesla because I read some stories about people buying a Tesla with a certain feature only to have it revoked later. This is rare, and only occurs when the feature was accidentally added (but not purchased) to the vehicle. In order to verify the feature was in fact purchased you need to give the VIN to Tesla, or get a copy of the receipt or window sticker.

Tesla CPO cars seem to have FSD more often than not. It's pretty crazy, but they basically are buying back cars and then reselling them for the same price they sold them for new by including FSD. I paid almost to the dollar for a 2019 Model 3 P that a brand new one (without FSD) would have cost at the time.

Elon has indicated they're considering implementing some kind of program allowing users to transfer their FSD purchase to a new car when upgrading, but nothing has officially been announced.

 

[linux-works]

I'm curious - is there any legal backing or protection (writing?) that ENSURES that 'fsd stays with the vehicle as long as it does not touch tesla trade-in/sales' (or to that effect) ?

we are talking about $10k or maybe more, later. so far, I can't find a single thing that legally says, NOW AND FOREVER, fsd stays with the car under x,y,z conditions.

I simply would not feel ok buying/selling a software option like that until there is firm legal statement saying that once I pay X for it, its MINE. period. full stop. can't be taken back when vendor 'updates its website'.

companies have all the rights and they change terms all the time. when I bought my car, almost 2 yrs ago, there was a 7 day trial and full refund period. now, there is no such thing. lots of policies have changed.

software licenses are not property. I just can't seem to think of them as holding their value like real physical matter would. tesla can't break into my car and remove things that are physical, but if they WANT to, they can change anything 'soft' about the car and what power do YOU have, as a simple owner?

I'd feel better if licenses could truly be 'burned into' one time programmable chips (they do exist) and that once purchased, you would KNOW, for legal and technical reasons, no one can 'change the terms' of that sale later on. I see no reason other than greed, for the way it is right now. tesla likes being able to change the way they treat licenses and I dont really think that's fair, especially for the amount of dollars involved.

 

[CapeOne]

When I go look at the Tesla site they are selling existing inventory aka used cars for more than new at least for the model 3.

Cars listed under "existing inventory" are actually new cars and qualify for any state/local new EV incentives. Those listed under "used inventory" are the used cars. Tesla actually has a few new M3s in blue or red posted at slight discounts (despite still tight new and used car inventories right now) but none appear to be in California.

Below is an example of deep blue M3 LR AWD in Phoenix. Current retail is $53,690 and this one is being offered for $53,040. FSD can be added if desired.

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

You might also want to talk to a local Tesla sales advisor as they would have access to inventory not posted online.

 

[charlieaf92]

I'm curious - is there any legal backing or protection (writing?) that ENSURES that 'fsd stays with the vehicle as long as it does not touch tesla trade-in/sales' (or to that effect) ?

we are talking about $10k or maybe more, later. so far, I can't find a single thing that legally says, NOW AND FOREVER, fsd stays with the car under x,y,z conditions.

I simply would not feel ok buying/selling a software option like that until there is firm legal statement saying that once I pay X for it, its MINE. period. full stop. can't be taken back when vendor 'updates its website'.

companies have all the rights and they change terms all the time. when I bought my car, almost 2 yrs ago, there was a 7 day trial and full refund period. now, there is no such thing. lots of policies have changed.

software licenses are not property. I just can't seem to think of them as holding their value like real physical matter would. tesla can't break into my car and remove things that are physical, but if they WANT to, they can change anything 'soft' about the car and what power do YOU have, as a simple owner?

I'd feel better if licenses could truly be 'burned into' one time programmable chips (they do exist) and that once purchased, you would KNOW, for legal and technical reasons, no one can 'change the terms' of that sale later on. I see no reason other than greed, for the way it is right now. tesla likes being able to change the way they treat licenses and I dont really think that's fair, especially for the amount of dollars involved.

I've never seen an actual license agreement (which is crazy that they're able to convince people, myself included, to spend the money on a product they promise to deliver in the future without providing some very specific terms and description of what is actually included) - but I do have this... it is from a chat with a Tesla rep about the FSD feature staying with the vehicle when sold.

 

[EVRider-FL]

A chat session is not legally binding, and Tesla employees have been known to provide incorrect information before. If you sell a car with FSD privately, it’s a safe bet that the new owner will have FSD, but nothing else is certain.

 

[charlieaf92]

A chat session is not legally binding, and Tesla employees have been known to provide incorrect information before. If you sell a car with FSD privately, it’s a safe bet that the new owner will have FSD, but nothing else is certain.

I assume you're a lawyer or you've dealt with this type of thing before and you know what you're talking about in this respect. So, I'll take that as truth and just say that if there does come a point where Tesla refuses to honor my purchase I feel that I have a pretty strong argument to the contrary. I made a purchase decision based on information provided by a company representative, and it's documented.

 

[linux-works]

again, the cost of this sw license, to many of us normal working stiffs ($7k to $10k or more) - means that I need to know for certain, as much as anything else that we've come to 'know' is ours, before assuming that uses sales can be trusted to continue to have features that were licensed (in various meanings of that word) to the previous or original owner.

tesla just has not promised anything. what is current policy, changes, and is the old is just magically removed from websites, as if that's actually OK (but that's for another thread).

10k is too much for me to bet on, since its virtual sw key stuff and that has a history of being untrustable in the various industries that employ them.

burn it into OTP flash and then we might have something. until its unrevokable, its not 'real' in the same sense as hardware is real.

 

[charlieaf92]

again, the cost of this sw license, to many of us normal working stiffs ($7k to $10k or more) - means that I need to know for certain, as much as anything else that we've come to 'know' is ours, before assuming that uses sales can be trusted to continue to have features that were licensed (in various meanings of that word) to the previous or original owner.

tesla just has not promised anything. what is current policy, changes, and is the old is just magically removed from websites, as if that's actually OK (but that's for another thread).

10k is too much for me to bet on, since its virtual sw key stuff and that has a history of being untrustable in the various industries that employ them.

burn it into OTP flash and then we might have something. until its unrevokable, its not 'real' in the same sense as hardware is real.

It sounds like the upcoming FSD subscription is a perfect solution for you. Almost no commitment - if it ever doesn't live up to expectations you can just cancel and you're not out anything. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[EVRider-FL]

I assume you're a lawyer or you've dealt with this type of thing before and you know what you're talking about in this respect. So, I'll take that as truth and just say that if there does come a point where Tesla refuses to honor my purchase I feel that I have a pretty strong argument to the contrary. I made a purchase decision based on information provided by a company representative, and it's documented.

No, I’m not a lawyer, but I know that just because someone from Tesla tells you something, that doesn’t make it legally binding or even correct. In the chat that you shared, you said you got two different answers from other Tesla employees, so why do you assume the answer in the chat is the correct one?

The chat might help convince Tesla to resolve any dispute in your favor, but it doesn’t require them to do so.

 

[charlieaf92]

No, I’m not a lawyer, but I know that just because someone from Tesla tells you something, that doesn’t make it legally binding or even correct. In the chat that you shared, you said you got two different answers from other Tesla employees, so why do you assume the answer in the chat is the correct one?

The chat might help convince Tesla to resolve any dispute in your favor, but it doesn’t require them to do so.

I assumed the chat would be the ultimate answer because it is the person I was connected to when I specifically selected FSD as the topic/question on their website. This versus the two other people who weren't designated company representatives on the topic. Either way, in the context of purchasing a car when a feature is listed on the bill of sale and window sticker it is reasonably assumed that it belongs to the car and moves with it. Anything that doesn't implicitly stay with the car always includes a type of designator (like 1 year of free sirius XM radio). My bill of sale says "full self driving", no asterisks, no stated limitation of time or ownership. It is a feature I paid for with the vehicle and any reasonable person would expect it to stay with the vehicle.

In addition the CEO has stated that the feature stays with the vehicle. At this point I'm confident enough that its been made clear in a variety of ways that I have zero concern. I'm still not convinced it was worth the extra money, but only time will tell.

 

[linux-works]

ianal, but I personally would trust nothing less than something to the legal level of a sales document/receipt and detailed statement of warranty/exclusions.

so far, again, I dont see any firm legally binding (if it came to court) language saying that it will now and forever, no matter what tesla does (or even if tesla changes hands) - if you purchased software option X, no one can take it away from you, no matter what.

'he said in a chat' counts for nothing. elon saying things also counts for nothing. is that a legally binding thing, when a ceo 'says stuff' ? NO! not in this country, at least.

the age of trusting a smile and handshake are long, long gone. and we've seen how companies change 'the rules' on a whim - and fully get away with it.

to each his own; some may feel ok trusting a 'chat script'. but that is not legally binding, as far as I'm aware.

have fun arguing in court - what you *think* was a legally binding promise.

 

[Mattopotamus]

I've never seen an actual license agreement (which is crazy that they're able to convince people, myself included, to spend the money on a product they promise to deliver in the future without providing some very specific terms and description of what is actually included) - but I do have this... it is from a chat with a Tesla rep about the FSD feature staying with the vehicle when sold.


View attachment 671587

This chat log seems to align with what I have read across various forums/threads. If you are a new owner and can provide proof of purchase, they generally add it back if it was accidentally removed.

Eg, you buy a Tesla from a 3rd party dealership that is advertised has having FSD you need to make sure you get the original proof of purchase in the event Tesla strips it away.

 

[bjrosen]

Uh-Oh better get Maaco. If you don't like the color have the car painted. If you sell your car you'll only get a small fraction of the price of FSD, selling your car and getting a new one with FSD will cost you a lot, I'd look into painting or wrapping first.