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Where to install wall charger 60 amp breaker when gateway is full?
- Thread starter PerformanceY
- Start date
The powerwalls basically function as one unit, together. I am reasonably certain they are treated one block of storage by "the system".
1- Yes. I want it backed up but also want it to be able to charge from the grid.
2- see attached pic.
3- see attached pic.
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OK, I can't decipher your labels, and I'm not sure that any of them show the model number. But it's a Square D Homeline panel, likely 200A/225A (someone more familiar could be confident in that just on the size of the box). The model number should be something like HOM2040L225xyz, so if you can locate a code like that anywhere, it would be helpful. The 225 stands for a bus rating of 225A, which is in the information we need, and I'm guessing at the 225.
Given that and that you want your EVSE backed up, here are the options on where to put the 60A breaker:
1) The best place is in the 100A subpanel you haven't shown us. That's your loads panel, and the EVSE is a new load. But if spatially it's better to originate the circuit at the exterior panels, there's a couple options:
2) The logical option is to add yet another exterior panel for loads. You'd remove the 70A A/C breaker from the GW, put in a 100A breaker, use it to feed the new panel, put the 70A A/C breaker into that new panel, and add your 60A EVSE breaker there.
3) If you confirm the busbar rating in your batteries panel is 200A or 225A, then you could put the 60A EVSE breaker there. It's a bit weird, it doesn't really belong there, logically, as that's your generation panel. But since it has a main breaker (backfed), it would be allowed as long as the sum of all the other breakers does not exceed the busbar rating. And 50A + 50A + 30A + 60A = 190A. So there wouldn't be much headroom left for any other loads.
BTW, that 100A backfed main breaker in the battery panel, it's supposed to have a hold down kit on it. I'm not so familiar with what that looks like with Homeline, but I don't see anything. [In your picture of the Gateway, the hold down kit is the extra black plastic frame that is surrounding all the breakers.]
Cheers, Wayne
Given that and that you want your EVSE backed up, here are the options on where to put the 60A breaker:
1) The best place is in the 100A subpanel you haven't shown us. That's your loads panel, and the EVSE is a new load. But if spatially it's better to originate the circuit at the exterior panels, there's a couple options:
2) The logical option is to add yet another exterior panel for loads. You'd remove the 70A A/C breaker from the GW, put in a 100A breaker, use it to feed the new panel, put the 70A A/C breaker into that new panel, and add your 60A EVSE breaker there.
3) If you confirm the busbar rating in your batteries panel is 200A or 225A, then you could put the 60A EVSE breaker there. It's a bit weird, it doesn't really belong there, logically, as that's your generation panel. But since it has a main breaker (backfed), it would be allowed as long as the sum of all the other breakers does not exceed the busbar rating. And 50A + 50A + 30A + 60A = 190A. So there wouldn't be much headroom left for any other loads.
BTW, that 100A backfed main breaker in the battery panel, it's supposed to have a hold down kit on it. I'm not so familiar with what that looks like with Homeline, but I don't see anything. [In your picture of the Gateway, the hold down kit is the extra black plastic frame that is surrounding all the breakers.]
Cheers, Wayne
CrazyRabbit
Active Member
I think you got lots of nuisance trips in your future with only a 100 amp breaker feeding the whole house, AC and car charger!!! perhaps the powerwalls can be programed to supplement total loads greater the 100 amps.
is a loads calculation required for any of this? come on man!!!
I THINK your only option is to put your car charger on the spar location of the main panel. perhaps install a non back sub panel to that breaker.... but what do i know, i'm Crazy...
I also doubt any electrician will touch anything south of the 100 amp breaker to the GW...
is a loads calculation required for any of this? come on man!!!
I THINK your only option is to put your car charger on the spar location of the main panel. perhaps install a non back sub panel to that breaker.... but what do i know, i'm Crazy...
I also doubt any electrician will touch anything south of the 100 amp breaker to the GW...
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Yes. It’s 225A.
So this raises another question. With our energy needs increasing every year, plans to purchase another EV, and the fact that I live in CA and run 2 ACs most of the summer do you think that it would be a smart move to upgrade my service with PG&E?
If this was your system what would you do to future proof it?
Also I found another label I didn’t see before. This is on the inside of the cover of the box right next to the meter.
Attachments
Upgrading the service is expensive, particularly if it is underground, so if it was me, I'd forge ahead to the extend possible and see if the main breaker ever trips. That assumes you are only using one of the two service breakers in your meter/main. An NEC load calculation will tell that you need a bigger service a lot sooner than you do in practice. [The main exception being EVSEs, if you installed (3) 60A EVSEs, you could easily overload your service.]
Also, your meter/main says it is rated for 125A. So a qualified person could look at the existing service conductors and see if it's OK to swap your 100A breaker for a 125A breaker. Then you'd need to upsize downstream wires, but you'd have more power available. If your service is overhead, but the existing service conductors are only adequate for 100A, it wouldn't be that hard to upsize your service entrance conductors to the weatherhead, and then PG&E might OK that with the existing service drop, or upsize their drop for little or no cost.
The expense comes in when (a) you need to run new underground conduit (as you would for a 200A service, if your service is underground) and (b) when you need to replace a flush service panel like you have (which you would need to for any 200A service upgrade).
Cheers, Wayne
Also, your meter/main says it is rated for 125A. So a qualified person could look at the existing service conductors and see if it's OK to swap your 100A breaker for a 125A breaker. Then you'd need to upsize downstream wires, but you'd have more power available. If your service is overhead, but the existing service conductors are only adequate for 100A, it wouldn't be that hard to upsize your service entrance conductors to the weatherhead, and then PG&E might OK that with the existing service drop, or upsize their drop for little or no cost.
The expense comes in when (a) you need to run new underground conduit (as you would for a 200A service, if your service is underground) and (b) when you need to replace a flush service panel like you have (which you would need to for any 200A service upgrade).
Cheers, Wayne
It looks like @PerformanceY ’s gas riser is also very close to his existing meter socket / MSP combo. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be annoying to upgrade to 200A from the power company even if he had overhead service.
I’m also thinking CrazyRabbit is right that the average electricians out there won’t want to touch anything behind the gateway. They’ll land a 60A in that unused slot on existing main panel, but all those cool changes you described will be too much for them to try.
@PerformanceY , I feel your pain, I tried to have an electrician install an EV charger after I got solar and Powerwalls and it was soooo damn difficult. What county are you in? In some California jurisdictions, an EV charger that requires a 60A breaker needs to be permitted (and may need a disconnect). This all makes just about anything you’re doing kind of annoying to spec out even if it weren’t backed up.
ok. Thank you for the advice. I’ll put the breaker in the generation panel and see if we ever trip the mains.
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Oh…. Yikes. Thanks for catching that. For some reason It’s not letting me delete.
Click “report” under the post in question and you can ask the moderator to delete the image. There’s a limited time window for users to edit posts here.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
FWIW if you only charge during low usage periods you shouldn't have a problem. I way exceed my panel capacity but my usage is time dependent so the aggregate load never gets close.
I had a tesla wall connector in place when I added the powerwalls, but asked for it to be on the non backed up side because I was worried about the car draining the powerwalls (pre firmware changes that enable that to not happen).
once the firmware changes were made, I wanted a 14-50 outlet on the backup loads side, so I could use that balancing feature if desired. The only way I could really make it happen (get anything added on the backup loads side, even an outlet), was to text the tesla installer who did my job and ask if he would be willing to come back and do some side work for me.
When he did the original powerwall install, we had chatted (after me providing sparkling water etc), and he told me that he actually lived in the "next city over" from me, and gave me his number if I had any issues. I told him I would not abuse it. I never contacted him until I was having issues getting this 14-50 installed on the backup loads side.
He came back, and installed it for me (as side work, compensated directly as it were, nothing to do with tesla itself).
All that to say, I would encourage anyone considering things like wall chargers or outlets on the plans during their install, so it can be accounted for. Its not "easy" to do it later, unless you are talking about things possibly on the non backed up side.
I would also recommend that if Tesla hasn't set site control, that they do so. This will deploy PW power when needed if you are close to tripping that main breaker.
Hi Again. It’s been a while. I was unable to install the EVSE back when we were talking about this. So back to option 3: if I put the 60 AMP breaker in the generation sub panel will I still be able to charge the car from the grid? I would like to have the option to use the backup batteries or the grid.
Thanks.
I found it easier to just install my EV charge stuff in front of the batteries and make a non backup load. IMO, too much effort worrying about what if we have a power outage. We do not have many or for that long.
Regardless of where you land the 60A breaker, you will be able to charge from the grid.
Depending on your TEG settings, your Tesla may or may not charge on battery backup mode.
