I just added X-Ice tires Monday in the middle of a pretty good snow storm, and they have been great. I haven't had them on dry pavement yet, but they perform well in both fresh and packed snow as well as ice. I'm happy to have the peace of mind since we intend to use the car for ski duty this winter.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Which Snows and Why Poll?
- Thread starter mswlogo
- Start date
Here is a great resource.
Put your size tire in and get reviews and Euro Specs for any season tire. Might not have some USA Exclusive tires.
Tyre reviews, tests and ratings - Tyre Reviews
Put your size tire in and get reviews and Euro Specs for any season tire. Might not have some USA Exclusive tires.
Tyre reviews, tests and ratings - Tyre Reviews
I think that post 18 is showing the wrong information for the Sottozero 3. It should show C for fuel economy, B for rain, and 69dB for noise. Post 18 matches the Nokian ratings with B for fuel economy, F for rain, and 72dB for noise, but I'm unable to find the European ratings on the X-Ice Xi3 except in a size 195/65-15 which shows C for fuel economy, F for rain, and 71dB for noise. So, based on the European ratings, the R3 has slightly better fuel economy than the X-Ice and Sottozero 3 which are tied. The Sottozero 3 is much, much better than the other two in the wet, and the Sottozero is the quietest by a noticeable amount.
Also, I had the Sottozero 3s on my car last winter and they're back on for this winter. Compared to Blizzaks and Xice which I've had on other cars, they're distinctly quieter, have dramatically better steering response, and much better handling and braking in the dry and wet. They're not quite as good in snow and ice as the other two, but the difference is fairly small. I have no personal experience with the R3s.
Compared to the Model 3 stock Michelin Primacy MXM4, the Sottozero 3s are a little quieter, handle a little better in wet and dry conditions, totally destroy the MXM4 in snow and ice, and if there's a difference in efficiency to the MXM4, it's too small for me to notice it.
Here's the correct European ratings for the Sottozero 3 from Pirelli's UK website.
Link to the Nokian website with the labels - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 - Winter Tyres / Nokian Tyres
Line to the only Michelin rating I could find - Michelin X-ICE Xi3 195/65 R15 95 T XL » Oponeo.co.uk
Last edited:
I think that post 18 is showing the wrong information for the Sottozero 3. It should show C for fuel economy, B for rain, and 69dB for noise. Post 18 matches the Nokian ratings with B for fuel economy, F for rain, and 72dB for noise, but I'm unable to find the European ratings on the X-Ice Xi3 except in a size 195/65-15 which shows C for fuel economy, F for rain, and 71dB for noise. So, based on the European ratings, the R3 has slightly better fuel economy than the X-Ice and Sottozero 3 which are tied. The Sottozero 3 is much, much better than the other two in the wet, and the Sottozero is the quietest by a noticeable amount.
Also, I had the Sottozero 3s on my car last winter and they're back on for this winter. Compared to Blizzaks and Xice which I've had on other cars, they're distinctly quieter, have dramatically better steering response, and much better handling and braking in the dry and wet. They're not quite as good in snow and ice as the other two, but the difference is fairly small. I have no personal experience with the R3s.
Compared to the Model 3 stock Michelin Primacy MXM4, the Sottozero 3s are a little quieter, handle a little better in wet and dry conditions, totally destroy the MXM4 in snow and ice, and if there's a difference in efficiency to the MXM4, it's too small for me to notice it.
Here's the correct European ratings for the Sottozero 3 from Pirelli's UK website.
Link to the Nokian website with the labels - Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 - Winter Tyres / Nokian Tyres
Line to the only Michelin rating I could find - Michelin X-ICE Xi3 195/65 R15 95 T XL » Oponeo.co.uk
I stand corrected on Post #18 on SottoZero 3 efficiency, where did you find that Label on Pirelli UK web site.
Note that Tirerack reviewers say X-Ice3 is quieter than SottoZero 3.
Primacy 8.1
SottoZero 3 8.2SottoZero II 8.5
X-Ice 3 8.7
The thing about the Tirerack reviews is that it is peoples' impressions, and I think that most people judge the tires within the type of tire they are. For instance, the Michelin PS4S has a 9.6 dry rating while a Sport Cup 2 has a 9.1 dry rating. I can absolutely guarantee that the Sport Cup 2 has far more grip and will dramatically out handle a PS4S in the dry. For a full on studless winter tire, the Xice is much quieter than say a Blizzak, but it is not as quiet as the performance winter Sottozero 3.
I found the Sottozero 3 here - WINTER SOTTOZERO™ 3 - Car tyre | Pirelli
Just click on the 235/45R18 98V XL and the rating label pops up.
I went with a set of X-ice this time around. I had Blizzak DM-V2s on my Infiniti. No comment on noise with them as that car had full intake/headers etc. They got me through one winter on my P, but they were pretty worn down by then, so I can’t really give a fair review.
We will see how the X-ice fair here in Chicago. So far, the noise isn’t a factor for me. But I always have music playing.
We will see how the X-ice fair here in Chicago. So far, the noise isn’t a factor for me. But I always have music playing.
Based on the cars I"ve owned and ridden in, I'd say that the Xice is possibly the quietest studless winter tire out there; it's certainly among the quietest.
I just put 235/40/19 96V Sottozero 3's on my P3D. They worked great in our first snow storm today. Stable and good traction in slush. Crisp handling in the wet, if not quite as sharp stock Pilot Sport 4's. Tire noise is a bit of a mixed bag. The actual tread noise is great but they seem to generate a resonance / ringing noise anywhere from 2mph in crunchy ice / snow to up to over 70 on a rough road. Kind of like the sound you get if you hit the tire with a small hammer but constant. I almost think I can feel it in the steering wheel. Running about 41 psi cold. Tried 36 psi for a minute tonight and it might have been slightly better - not sure. Any advice? I didn't get the dedicated Tesla foam tires. Feeling dumb about that now... It's not terrible but I can't un-hear it.
Zcd1
Active Member
That is the car's stability control system's programmed balance, IMO. You have to learn how to exploit it.
It's quite a different experience from the Audis I drove for 20+ years before buying the Tesla...
MatildaModelY
Active Member
Bubbling this thread up to the top as winter seems to be fast approaching. Any new 2020 winter tire options for Model 3? I'm currently debating between Sottozeros and X-ICE.
Sottozeros have better grip in dry and wet conditions, and better steering response. X-Ice have better grip on snow and ice. From my experience with a variety of tires, if a summer tire like a Michelin PS4S is a 1 on snow and ice and an X-Ice is a 10, then a good all season tire is a 5 and the Sottozero 3 is an 8.
For reference, the stock Michelin Primacy MXMs that come on the Model 3 are worse than most all seasons on snow and ice; I'd rate them about a 3.
According to Bjorn on Youtube, and I think he's right, it's a function of the way Tesla controls the output of the front and rear motors. There is a heavy bias on the rear motor until slippage is detected at which point more power is directed through the front motor. The net result is that the tail can move around from 6" to 12" before the car straightens itself out. Personally, I wish Tesla would implement a Slippery driving mode, in addition to Chill and Sport, that would apply a more front motor torque bias, an even split in slippery conditions would be my preference.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
If the Sottozero 3's are at all like the Sottozero 2's then 40 psi is not enough in any conditions appropriate for those tires. For the 18" Sottozero 2s on aero wheels, I've found you want at least 44 psi cold (I prefer 45-46 psi). But the AWD Model 3 is going to be tail-happy relative to other AWD cars regardless of what kind of winter tires (and pressures) you run - it's built into the traction control system which is designed to give control back to the driver.
Every other modern car I've tested in the snow and ice takes control away from the driver by applying a hair trigger on the traction control. They cut power when (IMO) they shouldn't. The Model 3 will modulate power very finely at very light throttle settings but give you more tire slip when you ask for it by pressing the accelerator more. The problem arises with some drivers because they become accustomed to the prodigious torque (when on bare pavement) and don't even realize they are asking for so much on snow and ice (even when only depressing the accelerator 1/4 of the way or less). Because they have become accustomed to a lot of easily accessible torque - it becomes the new normal. It happens without most people even being aware of it. This can make it hard to go back to the kind of gentle driving needed on icy or snowy surfaces.
There is one other related factor. All that rear wheel torque that is so easily accessible on wet or dry bare pavement can cause the tread blocks on a winter tire to wear into a slightly trapezoidal shape. When the snow falls, this presents the edge of the tread blocks to the snow and ice when braking (so it's great for stopping) but has the opposite effect under acceleration - it doesn't present the edges of the tread blocks to bite into the snow and ice under acceleration. In other words, the strong torque of the Model 3 causes tire wear patterns to form that only occurs on a gas car when driven in the higher rpm ranges and with heavier throttle applications. The solution to avoiding this is to accelerate like all the other cars on the road when on bare pavement to reduce this wear pattern on your winter tires. Running a low air pressure in the winter (like 40 psi) will magnify this tread wear issue because it allows the tread blocks to "squirm" a bit more.
I love the tail-happy nature of the Model 3 when not driven very gently and have found it to be very controllable and safe, even when driven ham-footed on icy roads. It's more a matter of whether you are comfortable with looser handling dynamics under acceleration or whether you get nervous whenever you feel a little looseness. Personally, I've found that this looseness helps me maintain a good feel for where the ultimate grip levels end and this make me a safer driver as opposed to most every other car out there that make you feel like you have lots of grip (until you are careening off the road).
MatildaModelY
Active Member
I think I'm pretty much set on x-ice or sottozero's. Thoughts between the two?
It's surprisingly not THAT icy here in Chicago especially where I live downtown. The only thing I am worried about are frequent trips up to Wisconsin which is definitely snowy and even more so on some of the county roads that don't get a lot of plow attention. I have 20" now, I would likely downsize to 19's for the winter.
I can tell you from personal experience that an AWD Model 3 on Sottozero 3s is nearly unstoppable on snowy or icy surfaces. There was one particularly memorable day about a year and a half ago when I had to pick up my son from school on a day that was sunny in the morning, then the snow fell, melted and then turned to ice on all the roads as the temperature dropped rapidly. We get those days sometimes here in Colorado where the temperature can drop 30 or 40 degrees in just an hour or two.
Anyway, on this particular day, a majority of the cars either slid off the roads or were literally unable to get enough traction to move on the road. Two wheel drives with snow tires couldn't make it and neither could AWD or 4WD with all season tires. It took snow tires and AWD or 4WD to be able to make it up and down the hills in the area. It took me an hour to drive the 7 miles to the school, but in that 7 miles I saw at least 200 cars that had slid off the road and at least that many more that simply weren't able to move. I had to drive on the wrong side of the road, through driveways, a little off the road, and had to get out and help push cars out of the way a couple of times to get through. And a couple of times had to dodge cars that were sliding down a hill with all 4 tires locked up; that was more exciting than I would prefer.
For really bad conditions like that day, Chill mode and Regen on low makes the car distinctly easier to drive. Based on my experience with X-Ice tires on another car, I'm sure they would have been a little better than the Sottozero 3s, they wouldn't have made a difference getting to the school and back, but I probably could have driven 1 or 2 MPH faster.
I'm running 245/45/18 size Sottozeros on my car since I like having a tiny bit more ground clearance and at least some protection for the wheel lips. In 19s, I'd run 245/40/19. In that size, I'd also consider Michelin Pilot Alpin 5 or Vredstein Wintrac Pro tires. Both are performance winter tires and I've heard good things about both, although I have no personal experience with either one. The Michelins are much more expensive than the other two, but they're the only ones that have a mileage warranty. Their warranty is for 30,000 miles. It looks like I'll get about 15,000 miles on my Sottozero 3s before they're worn out.
I'd like to add that on dry roads and wet roads, the Sottozeros are dramatically better than the X-Ice. I actually think the Sottozeros stop and handle better in dry and wet conditions than the stock Michelin Primacy MXM4s. Also, I found that 39 PSI works best with the Sottozeros on my car and I like 42 PSI on the stock MXM4s. I don't know if it's the difference in size or tire construction, but 39 just seems to have the best handling and ride balance.
Similar threads
