Which Tesla can beat most sports cars?

[Dan203]

Cool story. I'm not sure why it's relevant to what's being asked.

I was responding to the video, not the OP. The GTR only beat the Model 3 by 1/2 a second. Is that' worth another $70k to you?

 

[Glamisduner]

Lol, that’s hilarious. P3D might hang for the first 1/8 mile, so there’s some morsel of truth in your street racing comment, but high 11s In the quarter is a far cry from “beat most high end sports cars” territory.

I said most, not all. And the vast majority of ones that can beat it cost at least 2x the price, some 10-20x the price.

The P100D will beat almost all of those.

I agree it can beat most high end sports cars in 1/4th mile, but not "most supercars"

 

[Dan203]

I agree it can beat most high end sports cars in 1/4th mile, but not "most supercars"

That's what I was saying. There are some crazy expensive cars out there designed specifically to function better on the track than in real life. If you've got the cash to afford one of those then congratulations you win. Although I might still be able to jump off to an early lead at a stop light.

 

[st_o_p]

...

As for the OP's question, just look at the numbers and you can compare that against cars on 0-60 times or dragtimes. But even then, the LR AWD at a stop light is going to dust most other cars that may be technically faster just because of pure reaction time and not needing to be good at launching...

Exactly!! In my 4-5 months driving LR AWD (non-performance) I never met a car I couldn't leave behind from a stop light. Real-world driving - never even came close. That was not the case with my BMW - and it happens a lot more natural with the Tesla - no revving or theatrics, just leaving all traffic in the dust...

 

[MentalNomad]

How much faster is the Performance vs Dual Motor? Will I notice a huge difference if say someone didn't tell me I was in a Performance and I assumed I was in a Dual Motor? I just wonder if the cost savings was worth not getting Performance.

From 0 to 45 mph, the Performance isn't faster than a Dual Motor (if wearing the same tires and going in a straight line.) Above that, the Performance's power output keeps going up, while the regular Dual Motor has topped out.

Of course, the Performance also gives you the ability to stop harder and more often without overheating the brakes (and failing), and has a sport-tuned suspension for better handling in aggressive situations. Stopping and handling are part of performance, too, even if they aren't about "faster."

 

[ModelNforNerd]

From 0 to 45 mph, the Performance isn't faster than a Dual Motor (if wearing the same tires and going in a straight line.) Above that, the Performance's power output keeps going up, while the regular Dual Motor has topped out.

Of course, the Performance also gives you the ability to stop harder and more often without overheating the brakes (and failing), and has a sport-tuned suspension for better handling in aggressive situations. Stopping and handling are part of performance, too, even if they aren't about "faster."

best way to find out, get some drag racing slips and compare the 60' trap times.

a Model 3 Performance (stealth or +) should be in the 1.8s area.

not sure about a non-P


EDIT:

looks like about a .2s separation at 60'

Fast Tesla Model-3s 1/4 Mile 0-60 Drag Racing - DragTimes.com

 

[RobDickinson]

Not really.. Its too heavy and has insufficient cooling

lol at someone voting disagree to this, the p100D cant even manage a lap of the nurburg ring without serious drop in performance let alone a serious race (without major modifications).

We know thats been addressed in the model 3 pack/system to a large extent and I expect it to be addressed in a battery pack refresh of the S sometime too.

 

[Knightshade]

From 0 to 45 mph, the Performance isn't faster than a Dual Motor (if wearing the same tires and going in a straight line.) Above that, the Performance's power output keeps going up, while the regular Dual Motor has topped out.

That's kind of backward.... the P is significantly faster to 45 (or 60) and they're damn near equal after that.

It's why the P gets to 60 0.8 seconds quicker, but is also only about 0.8 seconds quicker a the end of a 1/4 when both cars are around 114-115 mph.

Of course, the Performance also gives you the ability to stop harder

Not sure what you mean here.

First- the P3D- has the same brakes as the AWD does... the P3D+ has larger ones.

But the tires, not the brakes, are what stop the car. Same tires/wheels on both cars and they stop in exactly the same distance just as physics requires- doesn't matter which has bigger brake calipers.

The P3D+ does have stickier tires- but so will the - (or AWD) soon as the owner replaces em- and they get to replace them on much lighter 18" wheels as a bonus versus the boat-anchor 20s the P3D+ guy is stuck with.

and more often without overheating the brakes (and failing)

Well that's true (for the P3D+ anyway, not the -) though aftermarket brakes are significantly better than either- and unless you're on a non-drag race track, or in the chase scene from a Bourne movie, this isn't going to matter to anybody.

, and has a sport-tuned suspension for better handling in aggressive situations.

...ehh..... again the P3D- does not. The P3D+ has... a whole 0.39 inch drop, and a 1mm larger sway bar on one end.

It's literally the least they could do and claim it had a "sport" suspension... (and in exchange you're stuck with those boat-anchor 20" wheels with rubber-band tires).


A P owner who really cares about track/performance bleeding edge is far better off with a P3D- and going aftermarket brakes and suspension (and saving thousands on the car itself for mediocre "sport" upgrades of marginal value and utility that force him to use bigger wheels)

 

[Dan203]

That's kind of backward.... the P is significantly faster to 45 (or 60) and they're damn near equal after that.

It's why the P gets to 60 0.8 seconds quicker, but is also only about 0.8 seconds quicker a the end of a 1/4 when both cars are around 114-115 mph.




Not sure what you mean here.

First- the P3D- has the same brakes as the AWD does... the P3D+ has larger ones.

But the tires, not the brakes, are what stop the car. Same tires/wheels on both cars and they stop in exactly the same distance just as physics requires- doesn't matter which has bigger brake calipers.

The P3D+ does have stickier tires- but so will the - (or AWD) soon as the owner replaces em- and they get to replace them on much lighter 18" wheels as a bonus versus the boat-anchor 20s the P3D+ guy is stuck with.




Well that's true (for the P3D+ anyway, not the -) though aftermarket brakes are significantly better than either- and unless you're on a non-drag race track, or in the chase scene from a Bourne movie, this isn't going to matter to anybody.




...ehh..... again the P3D- does not. The P3D+ has... a whole 0.39 inch drop, and a 1mm larger sway bar on one end.

It's literally the least they could do and claim it had a "sport" suspension... (and in exchange you're stuck with those boat-anchor 20" wheels with rubber-band tires).


A P owner who really cares about track/performance bleeding edge is far better off with a P3D- and going aftermarket brakes and suspension (and saving thousands on the car itself for mediocre "sport" upgrades of marginal value and utility that force him to use bigger wheels)

You can get a set of 18" wheels from tsportline that fit over the bigger brakes for $1,240. So if the only thing you don't like about the + is the wheels that can be fixed. I'm likely going to buy a set and put some AS tires on them as I don't really like the giant 20" rims either.

 

[MentalNomad]

best way to find out, get some drag racing slips and compare the 60' trap times.

Or look at dyno results... Which I just checked and see that I mis-remembered the results.

Too late to edit my original post.

 

[Knightshade]

You can get a set of 18" wheels from tsportline that fit over the bigger brakes for $1,240. So if the only thing you don't like about the + is the wheels that can be fixed. I'm likely going to buy a set and put some AS tires on them as I don't really like the giant 20" rims either.

I don't really like anything about the +

The - is a flat out better car.

If you care about brakes for heavy track use the price diff going with MPPs brakes gets you better brakes for less money. If you don't care about it then no need to spend extra on the +

If you care about bleeding edge sport suspension again aftermarket stuff on a - will beat the stock sport stuff on the + and even doing both of the above likely come out cheaper or similar total cost for a better car all around.

If you care about not running boat anchor wheels the - has you covered- the + you have to spend that extra $1240 and hope you can find a sucker for your 20s.

What's the upside to the + exactly? Especially as cheap as the off-menu - is right now?

 

[yerEVan]

I don't really like anything about the +

The - is a flat out better car.

If you care about brakes for heavy track use the price diff going with MPPs brakes gets you better brakes for less money. If you don't care about it then no need to spend extra on the +

If you care about bleeding edge sport suspension again aftermarket stuff on a - will beat the stock sport stuff on the + and even doing both of the above likely come out cheaper or similar total cost for a better car all around.

If you care about not running boat anchor wheels the - has you covered- the + you have to spend that extra $1240 and hope you can find a sucker for your 20s.

What's the upside to the + exactly? Especially as cheap as the off-menu - is right now?

Braking seems kinda crappy with the pd3-. If you get the MPP brakes/calipers, does that improve significantly? Are they much better than stock, i.e. better performing, especially with track mode? I haven’t tracked the car yet, but want to this summer (whatever is left of it).

 

[Knightshade]

Braking seems kinda crappy with the pd3-. If you get the MPP brakes/calipers, does that improve significantly? Are they much better than stock, i.e. better performing, especially with track mode? I haven’t tracked the car yet, but want to this summer (whatever is left of it).

IIRC a non-P with MPP brakes did...let's say significantly better.. versus a P with the Tesla-upgrade + brakes when MPP did some comparisons around a track.

 

[Dan203]

What's the upside to the + exactly? Especially as cheap as the off-menu - is right now?

I can lease it for $625/mo and not have to pour money into aftermarket parts that will have to be removed when I return it. I'll likely just stick the 20" wheels/tires in the shed and then swap them back out when I'm ready to turn the car in. Keep the tsportline ones for the next one I get or sell them to recoup some of the cash.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I can lease it for $625/mo and not have to pour money into aftermarket parts that will have to be removed when I return it. I'll likely just stick the 20" wheels/tires in the shed and then swap them back out when I'm ready to turn the car in. Keep the tsportline ones for the next one I get or sell them to recoup some of the cash.

if leasing makes sense for you, that's a good idea.


it's not for everyone.

 

[wenkan]

Model 3 performance can beat most of the sports cars under 100k USD, see List of Top Gear test track Power Lap times - Wikipedia

Roadster 2020 should be able to beat all the super cars.

 

[Dan203]

if leasing makes sense for you, that's a good idea.


it's not for everyone.

I realize that. But I ran the math and the lease is actually the better option if you're the type of person to trade in cars every 3 years anyway. The car would need to retain a significant portion of it's value after 3 years for you to sell it and even break even with the lease. If you plan to keep the car longer then buying might make more sense, but based on my estimate you'd have keep it for 5-7 years to end up ahead. Or drive more miles then the lease will allow.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I realize that. But I ran the math and the lease is actually the better option if you're the type of person to trade in cars every 3 years anyway. The car would need to retain a significant portion of it's value after 3 years for you to sell it and even break even with the lease. If you plan to keep the car longer then buying might make more sense, but based on my estimate you'd have keep it for 5-7 years to end up ahead. Or drive more miles then the lease will allow.

I've already put 25,500 on mine, in 368 days.


A lease wasn't gonna cut it.

And now that I've convinced my wife........in 2 years SHE is getting the pickup, and I get to keep my toy.

 

[astrowunder]

I took my P3d- to the track last week. This track has a very short 300 ft drag race which is almost custom-built for Teslas. I won one bracket and lost another to a P100D who then went on to beat me in the finals. Some of the cars I raced were reported to have 1000hp with NOS, but the instant torque wins almost every time in a short drag

 

[Dan203]

I've already put 25,500 on mine, in 368 days.


A lease wasn't gonna cut it.

And now that I've convinced my wife........in 2 years SHE is getting the pickup, and I get to keep my toy.

No that wouldn't have worked for you. By contrast my current car is over 3 years old and has 18,500 miles on it. So for me even the minimum 10K/year lease is fine.