Why does Tesla suspension suck so bad?

[ElectricAnt54]

Road in a new 3P last month. Tesla finally figured out what 95% of buyers want in a suspension. It's too soft for track day people.

Seems Tesla recently removed the slightly lowered suspension in model 3 performance but has not yet done this to model y performance.
Model 3 driving dynamics forum recently mentioned Tesla’s model 3 performance web page no longer mentions lowered suspension. The model y performance page still mentions having lowered suspension. Also When switching between non performance 3 and performance within the design page, the model 3 image doesn’t drop down a tad to reflect lowered suspension.

Source

Model 3 performance ride quality

I have a model Y PUP (2020) and I have to admit it’s a bit harsh. I’m looking at adding another car and looking at the Polestar 2 Perf. I have yet to drive a M3P but I think I’ve read here the ride quality is poor. So two questions, is it? Is the LR ride much better? I can get a new demo...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[tm1v2]

Road in a new 3P last month. Tesla finally figured out what 95% of buyers want in a suspension. It's too soft for track day people.

@zecar The M3P damping is also too weak for fast driving on twisty back roads. Drive fast enough - still within its grip limits - and the car gets very bouncy and floaty and doesn't settle down until you slow down or the road gets straight and smooth. Honestly it might be less bothersome on a typical racetrack with big turns and well-maintained pavement...the suspension might actually have time to settle down in a turn. Maybe.

However in typical daily driving the 2021 and 2022 M3P suspension is perfectly fine. Not special, but fine. It even feels sporty if you're not driving it hard.

The Model 3 does ride and handle better than a Y of the same era, e.g. when I tested 2021 models, but that's true of every sedan/wagon/hatch vs closely related crossover in my experience (Forester vs Impreza, X3 vs 3-series, etc). Just the physics of it I assume. Such is the tradeoff for turning a sedan into a roomy, upright crossover.

The Model 3's suspension tuning isn't great, but it's passable. Unfortunately when turned into a crossover (the Model Y) "not great" became "really not great." Again, that's true of most other crossovers that attempt any resemblance of decent handling though. Words can barely describe what a turd that X3 I drove was...

(I will say the Macan had surprisingly good suspension tuning, the best of any crossover I've driven, but that car was sorely lacking in most other ways. And size-wise it felt more like a lifted hatchback than a Model Y. Porsche doesn't make a Macan-sized sedan to compare it with though!)

 

[sleepydoc]

Source for this information?

I’ve seen similar reports, too, but it’s all anecdotal - not the best for something as subjective as ride quality. Unfortunately, Tesla has no official communications about anything so we’re unlikely to ever get any ‘official‘ statement about changes.

 

[sleepydoc]

Road in a new 3P last month. Tesla finally figured out what 95% of buyers want in a suspension. It's too soft for track day people.

@zecar The M3P damping is also too weak for fast driving on twisty back roads. Drive fast enough - still within its grip limits - and the car gets very bouncy and floaty and doesn't settle down until you slow down or the road gets straight and smooth. Honestly it might be less bothersome on a typical racetrack with big turns and well-maintained pavement...the suspension might actually have time to settle down in a turn. Maybe.

However in typical daily driving the 2021 and 2022 M3P suspension is perfectly fine. Not special, but fine. It even feels sporty if you're not driving it hard.

The Model 3 does ride and handle better than a Y of the same era, e.g. when I tested 2021 models, but that's true of every sedan/wagon/hatch vs closely related crossover in my experience (Forester vs Impreza, X3 vs 3-series, etc). Just the physics of it I assume. Such is the tradeoff for turning a sedan into a roomy, upright crossover.

The Model 3's suspension tuning isn't great, but it's passable. Unfortunately when turned into a crossover (the Model Y) "not great" became "really not great." Again, that's true of most other crossovers that attempt any resemblance of decent handling though. Words can barely describe what a turd that X3 I drove was...

(I will say the Macan had surprisingly good suspension tuning, the best of any crossover I've driven, but that car was sorely lacking in most other ways. And size-wise it felt more like a lifted hatchback than a Model Y. Porsche doesn't make a Macan-sized sedan to compare it with though!)

I suspect may be a big part of the problem. Tesla markets the 3 and the Y as ‘mass market’ models that have the acceleration Tesla is known for. Historically, small SUV crossovers are not performance vehicles, they are utilitarian. Something smaller, less plebeian and more fun than a minivan or large SUV but not track cars. So you have two, (more) affordably priced EVs meant for the general mass market.

Except because of the insane acceleration of Teslas you also get people that want to drive them like a sports car on a track. @tm1v2 talks about ‘driving fast on twisty back roads’ to the point where the suspension gets bouncy. He/She is looking for a tight performance suspension. I would wager the majority of drivers are more like me - they enjoy the acceleration but the most performance they need is staying on a cloverleaf at 35 MPH. The rest of the time they’re driving to work in traffic, picking up groceries, driving the kids, etc. For these people, a performance suspension is not just a waste, it’s a liability. It makes the ride stiff, unpleasant and at times punishing. For the performance-minded drivers it’s fine. They are used to and expect a harsh suspension because that’s what gives the performance they desire.

Also, building on comments about Tesla improving the suspension, Tesla based the Model Y on the model 3 but the Model Y is 600 lbs heavier and also higher. I suspect they started off by dropping the M3 suspension in the MY and called it good, making the MY “really not great” but later on, they tweaked it to make it more appropriate for the car.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

I’ve seen similar reports, too, but it’s all anecdotal - not the best for something as subjective as ride quality. Unfortunately, Tesla has no official communications about anything so we’re unlikely to ever get any ‘official‘ statement about changes.

It is known that 2022 model 3 performance no longer has lowered suspension with stiffer springs. Tesla www page confirms.

 

[OliverM3]

The model Y is a crossover, you would think they would put in a softer suspension for ride comfort. instead it's very hard and shallow. every road imperfection is felt through out the cabin. why doesn't tesla improve or use different suspensions supplier? i guess i'll just have to go after market *sigh*

i am on the gemini and it still sucks. i can't imagine daily driving with the performance 21" wheels

You should probably swap to the 19's if smooth ride is what you're after. Always go with the smallest rim size that they offer for any given car. It's the same reason I'm doing the 18" aero wheels on the M3 and just added the acceleration boost. This is my commuter so I wanted the best ride. Large rims are for nothing more than show.

 

[sleepydoc]

It is known that 2022 model 3 performance no longer has lowered suspension with stiffer springs. Tesla www page confirms.

Where did you see that? I see nothing about the suspension anywhere (either for the Y or the 3)

You should probably swap to the 19's if smooth ride is what you're after. Always go with the smallest rim size that they offer for any given car. It's the same reason I'm doing the 18" aero wheels on the M3 and just added the acceleration boost. This is my commuter so I wanted the best ride. Large rims are for nothing more than show.

Yeah - the 21” wheels with rubber bands for tires are good for street racers but no one else. You’re also virtually guaranteed to bend a rim every spring here in MN.

It’s interesting that the 3 has 18” wheels as an option but the smallest wheels you can get on the Y are 19” I wonder if they did that to achieve other specs? The smaller wheels actually give better range on the 3 so I’m not sure what else they would have accomplished.

I’ve debated getting 18” wheels for my Y to improve the ride, but it ends up being over $2k by the time you’ve included everything. At that point am I better off getting the MPP suspension upgrade? I’ve also thought about getting snow tires so what I may do is get a set of 18” snow tires & rims. Road conditions are generally worse in the winter so the extra tire thickness would be most useful then.

 

[OliverM3]

It’s interesting that the 3 has 18” wheels as an option but the smallest wheels you can get on the Y are 19” I wonder if they did that to achieve other specs? The smaller wheels actually give better range on the 3 so I’m not sure what else they would have accomplished.

They probably just thought that they would be to ugly with the amount of rubber that you'd have to add to keep the same height.
I loved the look of my rubber band tires on my S3 and BMW M3. Even tried dropping a size on my S3. In the end those two cars just didn't look good with smaller tires. I personally like the look of the Aero wheels for some odd reason. I can't believe I own a car with hubcaps. It almost feels dirty for a car enthusiast to have hubcaps on the car.

 

[Rootboy]

Just drove a 2022 MY performance for the first time around Chicagoland. I found the suspension very accommodating. Seriously, it drives very similar to my 1982 Volvo 242 GLT two door with aftermarket Tokico shocks. High, heavy and tight.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

Where did you see that? I see nothing about the suspension anywhere (either for the Y or the 3)

It is in the design studio (USA). Click on performance trim. A section appears in the www page titled “performance upgrade” and lists the extra items. In model 3, lowered suspension is no longer mentioned and the image of car doesn’t lower in height anymore. This is new in 2022.
Go to model y design studio and you will see car lower a bit and lowered suspension is mention in perfu upgrade section.

Yeah - the 21” wheels with rubber bands for tires are good for street racers but no one else. You’re also virtually guaranteed to bend a rim every spring here in MN.

It’s interesting that the 3 has 18” wheels as an option but the smallest wheels you can get on the Y are 19” I wonder if they did that to achieve other specs? The smaller wheels actually give better range on the 3 so I’m not sure what else they would have accomplished.

I’ve debated getting 18” wheels for my Y to improve the ride, but it ends up being over $2k by the time you’ve included everything. At that point am I better off getting the MPP suspension upgrade? I’ve also thought about getting snow tires so what I may do is get a set of 18” snow tires & rims. Road conditions are generally worse in the winter so the extra tire thickness would be most useful then.

 

[sleepydoc]

Just drove a 2022 MY performance for the first time around Chicagoland. I found the suspension very accommodating. Seriously, it drives very similar to my 1982 Volvo 242 GLT two door with aftermarket Tokico shocks. High, heavy and tight.

Umm…is It a complement to say that it drives like a 40 year old car?

 

[Rootboy]

Umm…is It a complement to say that it drives like a 40 year old car?

Not going to lie, all this suspension talk is a pipe dream for those of us in the Midwest. Not much to challenge any suspension. All I know is that it is totally subjective... and if you upgrade, go with the folks who have the research behind them. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge. For those of you who are familiar, I spent a lot of time on a Pelican Parts sub forum (BMW R1100S), so I get it. Thanks again for the education.

 

[tm1v2]

Not going to lie, all this suspension talk is a pipe dream for those of us in the Midwest. Not much to challenge any suspension.

 

[GBwaiting]

Not going to lie, all this suspension talk is a pipe dream for those of us in the Midwest. Not much to challenge any suspension. All I know is that it is totally subjective... and if you upgrade, go with the folks who have the research behind them. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge. For those of you who are familiar, I spent a lot of time on a Pelican Parts sub forum (BMW R1100S), so I get it. Thanks again for the education.

Not sure what you mean. The railroad tracks I go over every day will challenge any suspension. Unless you are coming from a performance perspective? If that’s the case, you, like many here, missed the OP. This is a comfort discussion not a performance one.

 

[sleepydoc]

Not going to lie, all this suspension talk is a pipe dream for those of us in the Midwest. Not much to challenge any suspension. All I know is that it is totally subjective... and if you upgrade, go with the folks who have the research behind them. This forum has been a wealth of knowledge. For those of you who are familiar, I spent a lot of time on a Pelican Parts sub forum (BMW R1100S), so I get it. Thanks again for the education.

Not sure what you mean. The railroad tracks I go over every day will challenge any suspension. Unless you are coming from a performance perspective? If that’s the case, you, like many here, missed the OP. This is a comfort discussion not a performance one.

My thought, too. The suspension is responsible for handling and ride quality. @Rootboy is right, there aren’t a lot of roads in the midwest that will tax a car’s handling but we have an abundance of roads that will tax ride quality and that’s where the MY falls down. Unfortunately, that’s also what more people actually need.

 

[Pianewman]

My thought, too. The suspension is responsible for handling and ride quality. @Rootboy is right, there aren’t a lot of roads in the midwest that will tax a car’s handling but we have an abundance of roads that will tax ride quality and that’s where the MY falls down. Unfortunately, that’s also what more people actually need.

Indefensible statement. Sorry.

 

[sleepydoc]

Indefensible statement. Sorry.

Can you defend the converse? I see no evidence that most people actually need or even use the handling capabilities of sport-tuned suspensions. The overwhelming majority of drivers use their cars for for transportation. Do I have numbers? No, but I don't think a rational analysis can go otherwise.

 

[Dennisis]

This is the same argument going from the BMW E90 to the F30 in reverse - some hated the change, some were OK with it (I wouldn’t say loved it). The F30 was too soft for me, lost its precision handling. No way to make everyone happy, all subjective.

 

[Pianewman]

HAHA! Please define "rational analysis." Is a view opposing yours irrational?

I actually AGREE with you that the suspension of the MY isn't for everyone, hence my purchase of MPP coilovers. However, I would never contend that "more people" want a suspension that has "x" qualities.

You could create a poll on this forum. Even WITH that information, you can't possibly assert what "more people" want.

Keep in mind that this forum is in infinitesimal group of Tesla owners.

 

[tm1v2]

Not sure what you mean. The railroad tracks I go over every day will challenge any suspension. Unless you are coming from a performance perspective? If that’s the case, you, like many here, missed the OP. This is a comfort discussion not a performance one.

My thought, too. The suspension is responsible for handling and ride quality. @Rootboy is right, there aren’t a lot of roads in the midwest that will tax a car’s handling but we have an abundance of roads that will tax ride quality and that’s where the MY falls down. Unfortunately, that’s also what more people actually need.

Yeah I understood @Rootboy as referring to twisty roads that test a car's handling. I'm sure almost anywhere in the US has roads that test a car's ride quality!

I agree that ride quality is much more important than handling for most Model Y buyers. Heck even for me, after test driving 2021 MYLR, my issue with the suspension was the ride quality, not the handling. I don't really expect a sharp corner-carver from a roomy upright CUV, but I do expect decent ride quality to match the roomy, comfortable seating.

Now the Model 3 I do expect decent handling from, especially the Performance. If I'm going lower and smaller (vs Model Y CUV) I should get some benefit in return! That is why my M3P stock suspension is now in boxes, and the car is riding on Redwood Motorsports Öhlins DFV + a few MPP bushing upgrades.

Back to twisty roads...I got 99 problems but boring straight roads ain't one.