Why no regen braking system in actual brakes as well as motor regen?

[tomas]

Just stumbled on this thread, and found it amusing. Seems like a bunch of non-tesla drivers arguing for blended, while every tesla driver (including me) just loves one pedal. What does this tell me? Experience vs. theory... experience wins.

PS: After 3 years of Tesla driving, got eGolf as additional car. My eGolf has one pedal throttle regen, but out of concern that drivers might not like, you have to remember to engage every time you start the car. It's a shock to the system every time I forget to engage.... wha????... oh yeah, got to but it in "B" mode.

 

[Twiglett]

Just stumbled on this thread, and found it amusing. Seems like a bunch of non-tesla drivers arguing for blended, while every tesla driver (including me) just loves one pedal. What does this tell me? Experience vs. theory... experience wins.

PS: After 3 years of Tesla driving, got eGolf as additional car. My eGolf has one pedal throttle regen, but out of concern that drivers might not like, you have to remember to engage every time you start the car. It's a shock to the system every time I forget to engage.... wha????... oh yeah, got to but it in "B" mode.

^^This^^
Same with the Leaf - really annoying.

If folks really like having extra paddles and options to be able to affect how your car slows down at any given moment, the other manufacturers have that, go try them
If you want the pedal on the right connected to the motor(s) for speeding up and slowing down, and the pedal on the left connected to the friction brakes that will always work the same way regardless of battery charge - buy a Tesla - any Tesla.

 

[22522]

I think maybe folks can not resolve how bad blended brakes are. Think like their feet are numb or asleep or something.

Kind of like most cannot resolve the difference in steering feel from one year BMW to another.

 

[KeRaSh]

Got to test drive a Model S P90D earlier this week and I was really curious about the regenerative breaking that everyone keeps talking about and how it might take a few days or a week to get used to.
I got the hang of it within the first 5-10 minutes and now that it's gone I'm missing it every time I take my foot off the accelerator.

 

[doubleatheman]

I have a Leaf with blended brakes. I'm not a fan. It is in no way "better". Braking performance becomes less predictable. If you're braking down a hill and hit a bump that causes the anti-locks to kick on, then the car turns off regen altogether, so now you have to hit the pedal harder. It also becomes harder to know when you're using regen and when you're using friction brakes.

Tesla made the correct decision. Make heavy regen available off-pedal. People will get used to it and it will become second-nature.

I am happy to know others experience this issue and are annoyed by it. My Honda Civic Hybrid has this issue, when I hit a large crack or bump and I'm slowing down on regen, at the first hint of ABS being needed, the regen kicks off instantly, scaring the **** out of me, and having to press the breaks way harder. I know for many who are not used to Hybrids, PHEV's or electric vehicles this surprises them when it happens the first time. I hope Teslas don't have this issue.


EDIT: In response to this thread, I am used to the blended concept. As my HCH goes into full regen mode if I let off the gas if I am going over 55mph. Typically in most all of my highway driving I almost never hit the break pedal for typical speed variations of light traffic.

 

[KZKZ]

They could add blended brakes with current hardware. But in the scheme of things there are other software issues (according to owners) they should fix before adding another (admittedly software) feature.

Yeah, I agree with you that higher software priorities exist.

I just hope they get around to offering owners more choice and not limit us to just two levels of regen.

 

[22522]

Yeah, I agree with you that higher software priorities exist.

I just hope they get around to offering owners more choice and not limit us to just two levels of regen.

Two levels of regen?

 

[jerry33]

Two levels of regen?

Two settings of regen Standard and Low. The actual level of regen is variable by controlling the accelerator pedal. I believe some want a High setting.

 

[22522]

Two settings of regen Standard and Low. The actual level of regen is variable by controlling the accelerator pedal. I believe some want a High setting.

Thanks. I did not know Teslas came with multiple settings. As long as they are not blended inside the brake pedal it's fine.

But I would expect Tesla would already have it at the highest value that is not fatiguing. As cruise control takes up a larger and larger fraction of each trip, it would make sense to increase the power handling capacity of the regen circuits.

Let almost all braking on autopilot be regenerative.

One problem with rear wheel only, gas pedal controlled, regenerative braking is cornering. Heavy braking on only one set of wheels while cornering in slippery conditions can cause a loss of control that anti skid will have trouble controlling. Then car companies start to disable regenerative braking during corners and you have a poorly blended experience again.

Heavy regen could be an option for 4 wheel drive cars only. They are already more efficient. So the efficient configuration would be 4 wheel drive with a heavy regen option.

The efficiency hounds get what they want and the low first cost Everyman folks get good efficiency and good drivability.

 

[diamond.g]

Thanks. I did not know Teslas came with multiple settings. As long as they are not blended inside the brake pedal it's fine.

But I would expect Tesla would already have it at the highest value that is not fatiguing. As cruise control takes up a larger and larger fraction of each trip, it would make sense to increase the power handling capacity of the regen circuits.

Let almost all braking on autopilot be regenerative.

One problem with rear wheel only, gas pedal controlled, regenerative braking is cornering. Heavy braking on only one set of wheels while cornering in slippery conditions can cause a loss of control that anti skid will have trouble controlling. Then car companies start to disable regenerative braking during corners and you have a poorly blended experience again.

Heavy regen could be an option for 4 wheel drive cars only. They are already more efficient. So the efficient configuration would be 4 wheel drive with a heavy regen option.

The efficiency hounds get what they want and the low first cost Everyman folks get good efficiency and good drivability.

We actually had a long thread about this once already. Why regenerative braking belongs on the brake pedal


I think they have the rate of deceleration set to not make it appear you are panic stopping when suddenly lifting off the accelerator.

 

[EaglesPDX]

With the car using dynamic cruise control most of the time, it will be interesting to see how the AutoPilot system handles the braking via regen and the brakes. Since it is based on a set distance with speed/distance adjustment, I suspect the Autopilot will mostly use regen and do it smoothly with no "panic stop" effect.

 

[jerry33]

Thanks. I did not know Teslas came with multiple settings. As long as they are not blended inside the brake pedal it's fine.

But I would expect Tesla would already have it at the highest value that is not fatiguing. As cruise control takes up a larger and larger fraction of each trip, it would make sense to increase the power handling capacity of the regen circuits.

Let almost all braking on autopilot be regenerative.

One problem with rear wheel only, gas pedal controlled, regenerative braking is cornering. Heavy braking on only one set of wheels while cornering in slippery conditions can cause a loss of control that anti skid will have trouble controlling. Then car companies start to disable regenerative braking during corners and you have a poorly blended experience again.

Vehicle stability control takes care of this. I haven't found any problems in 70K miles. And yes, I drove for years on a blended brake system. Tesla's is far superior as the braking is always consistent, with blended brakes you really have to plan ahead more than usual as you can be very surprised on occasion.

 

[22522]

Vehicle stability control takes care of this. I haven't found any problems in 70K miles. And yes, I drove for years on a blended brake system. Tesla's is far superior as the braking is always consistent, with blended brakes you really have to plan ahead more than usual as you can be very surprised on occasion.

Is yours 4 wheel drive?

It feels like there is a traction budget. If you hit gravel on one wheel, stability control will use the other wheels to take care of it. If you hit gravel on the entire rear axle, I don't know if there are enough control points for stability control if only the two front wheels have traction. Heavy regenerative braking, on the rear axle only, is kind of like running with less tread (read traction) on the rear tires. Only a problem as one approaches cornering limits.

You can feel BMW address this as the heavy regen cuts out if you corner hard.

 

[jerry33]

Is yours 4 wheel drive?

No. Tesla didn't offer AWD when I purchased mine almost 3.5 years ago.

 

[Jason S]

When we got our Model s two years ago it took us about 1 day to adjust to the regen braking. Now I really feel like one-pedal driving is far superior. I recommend that people give it a chance.

Just stumbled on this thread, and found it amusing. Seems like a bunch of non-tesla drivers arguing for blended, while every tesla driver (including me) just loves one pedal. What does this tell me? Experience vs. theory... experience wins.

PS: After 3 years of Tesla driving, got eGolf as additional car. My eGolf has one pedal throttle regen, but out of concern that drivers might not like, you have to remember to engage every time you start the car. It's a shock to the system every time I forget to engage.... wha????... oh yeah, got to but it in "B" mode.

My thoughts essentially. As comparison, drove a Prius once and was bothered by the brake feel. Driving an ICE with no braking on the accelerator is easier to adapt to -- no surprises, just a toggle in my brain on how to slow down.

 

[garsh]

With the car using dynamic cruise control most of the time, it will be interesting to see how the AutoPilot system handles the braking via regen and the brakes. Since it is based on a set distance with speed/distance adjustment, I suspect the Autopilot will mostly use regen and do it smoothly with no "panic stop" effect.

The cruise control on my Leaf has no problem maintaining a speed using just off-pedal regen. So I imagine Tesla is the same. But Tesla's Automatic Emergency Braking would need to use friction brakes as well.