Will not save any money on "fuel" with PG&E

[pk-sd]

I've also been doing "fuel" cost comparisons in preparation of getting a Model 3. In SDG&E territory, the numbers are even worse. The off-peak EV rate is $0.21/kWh. Therefore, I'm planning to get solar. For a reasonably sized, purchased system (6kW+) and assuming a 25-year lifetime without unexpected repairs/maintenance (probably a bit optimistic) and full use of the 30% tax credit, the equivalent kWh ends up in the $0.05/kWh to $0.07/kWh range. It's definitely something to consider, especially in areas with expensive electricity.

With SDG&E we do get totally screwed. At one time, with my first EV(Leaf) I was paying $0.06/kw. I basically drove my leased car for free. But with rate increase to $0.21/kw, I expect to save only $20-$30/month (with gas price around $3/gallon).

If you are planning on getting solar to charge your EV, you might want to see what's your top tier. If you are hitting Tier-3, you are might be better of using solar for just the home portion and use a second meter to charge your car. As per my calculations, about 1,000 miles/month on M3 with EV-TOU rates would cost me about $60/month. On the other hand solar on the house saves me several hundred every month. But I was heavy on Tier-3 and was using more than 1000KW/month... without the car.

So you need to look at both EV-TOU and EV-TOU2 options. If you talk to an honest solar company, they should be able to tell you which option works best for you.

EV Rates | San Diego Gas & Electric

 

[gambit48]

What's an "honest" solar company in your opinion? Most should work anywhere in the state.

 

[pk-sd]

What's an "honest" solar company in your opinion? Most should work anywhere in the state.

I talked to 5-6 different solar companies, you can tell some are just trying to close the deal as soon as possible. I went with Solar thru Costco. companies that work with Costco tend to be bit more professional. The sales guy I worked with answered all my questions and never pressured me to sign on the dotted line, gave me a very detailed analysis on all options. I ended up with a 26 panel system. Very happy with the company

 

[SageBrush]

So you need to look at both EV-TOU and EV-TOU2 options. If you talk to an honest solar company, they should be able to tell you which option works best for you.

Because they know when you use electricity and for what and the amounts ?

 

[pk-sd]

Because they know when you use electricity and for what and the amounts ?

Correct, they can plug the numbers in different scenarios and come up with the best solution based on your historical and expected usage. Utilities can also give you some idea, but I found them to be not that motivated.

 

[mmd]

This thread is a rehash of another similar thread.
Cost to recharge Model 3

EV rate plans from PG&E have catches. It may work well for some, who don't have anyone at home during peak periods or can shift all loads (pool pump, A/C etc.) to off-peak periods. I won't repeat what I said there; just posting the link.
Cost to recharge Model 3

 

[voip-ninja]

I have a solid state inverter I hope will last as long as the panels. To add to the uncertainly though, how much will an inverter cost 12 years from now ?

Or I can pay $160 today for a 20 year warranty.
SolarEdge is either very confident in their long-term costs or expect to be out of business ;-)

The warranty is probably pro rated.

 

[SageBrush]

The warranty is probably pro rated.

You should definitely read the warranty before you post.

 

[SageBrush]

Correct, they can plug the numbers in different scenarios and come up with the best solution based on your historical and expected usage. Utilities can also give you some idea, but I found them to be not that motivated.

So they know whatever you tell them, but only if they are honest.

No kidding

 

[N5329K]

In addition to the comments above re calculations using $0.12/kWh -- even if you are driving a Prius the savings should be significant .

No significant savings here. We spend about $1900 a year to fuel three cars. Two Priii and one Triumph roadster. The Model 3 was intended to replace one Prius, which gets a lot of miles and averages about $87 a month for fuel. The Model 3 will not eliminate all $87 of that consumption no matter what PG&E does to promote electric cars. It won't be free. So our "savings" will be less than $87 under any circumstances, could be a wash or, depending on rate structures, more expensive than gasoline. I don't know which. But I do know there is no way our EV savings could be called significant.
If you were driving a Hummer a lot, perhaps. But then you'd have other issues to worry about.
Robin

 

[SageBrush]

No significant savings here. We spend about $1900 a year to fuel three cars. Two Priii and one Triumph roadster. The Model 3 was intended to replace one Prius, which gets a lot of miles and averages about $87 a month for fuel. The Model 3 will not eliminate all $87 of that consumption no matter what PG&E does to promote electric cars. It won't be free. So our "savings" will be less than $87 under any circumstances, could be a wash or, depending on rate structures, more expensive than gasoline. I don't know which. But I do know there is no way our EV savings could be called significant.
If you were driving a Hummer a lot, perhaps. But then you'd have other issues to worry about.
Robin

Let's say your PV fueled Model 3 is 4 cents a kWh, or about 1 penny a mile. If I offered you the equivalent 50 cents a gallon gasoline for the next 30 years or so to fuel your Prius, would you walk away with your nose in the air saying "insignificant" ?

 

[N5329K]

Let's say your PV fueled Model 3 is 4 cents a kWh, or about 1 penny a mile. If I offered you the equivalent 50 cents a gallon gasoline for the next 30 years or so to fuel your Prius, would you walk away with your nose in the air saying "insignificant" ?

Sage, the only way I could get 4 cents/kWh power is with a mask.
But if I could average a more reasonable $.10 per kWh, I would save less than $50 per month, or $600 a year. Forget the cost of the Model 3. It will take 2.5 years to just recoup the cost of running the 15/40 line to the garage. That's why I say the savings for a 2X Prius household are not all that significant.
Robin

 

[bmms8]

I talked to 5-6 different solar companies, you can tell some are just trying to close the deal as soon as possible. I went with Solar thru Costco. companies that work with Costco tend to be bit more professional. The sales guy I worked with answered all my questions and never pressured me to sign on the dotted line, gave me a very detailed analysis on all options. I ended up with a 26 panel system. Very happy with the company

Im glad they worked out for you, but being in SD myself Costco was trying to steal our money. Went with a local company that offered better warranty, better panels, better install for about 25% less $.

 

[pk-sd]

Im glad they worked out for you, but being in SD myself Costco was trying to steal our money. Went with a local company that offered better warranty, better panels, better install for about 25% less $.

Sorry to hear that. Our install was done more than 6 years ago. Company policies change. I know they merged two different companies since then.

 

[ZeApelido]

You need to do your calculations based on PG&E's EV rate plan. I live near you. I pay about $0.11/kWh at off peak times. If you charge during that time you will definitely save a lot compared to paying for gas.

Your real problem is that you apparently are limited to charging from 110V. That means that during an 8 hour off peak period, for example, you can only get about 24 miles a of range. Unless you have a very short commute, that obviously isn't enough.

Have you spoken to your landlord about getting at least a 20A/240V outlet installed? That is the minimum needed for a decent charge rate. 40A would be much better.

I don't think that's a problem right now. I'm only doing about 25 miles per day on average, and can theoretically fulfill that on a 110 v over 8 hours with some leeway.

I have to play more with the usage for other appliances, and see if there is a way to avoid going up in tiers quickly. But basically, they will screw you on the other end for a cheap night rate...

 

[ZeApelido]

Why is this so important?
Don't you have solar or wind or water energy?
You live near the ocean-wind would be the way to go.
Is your energy coming from green energy?
Asking the more important question is more relevant than the price of it!
Worrying about the cost of electricity tells me more about you.
110v outlet charging tells me a ton about you.
Please get help! I hope you don't drive more than 40 miles a day otherwise buying any EV is a complete waste to you.

This was pretty funny but in all seriousness, I would buy the car even if fuel costs were more expensive (regionally). I just find it sad that for many in Bay Area - home of Tesla and many of their vehicles - don't get the fuel benefits that others will. Yet.

 

[LosAltosChuck]

Wait... there are people here who bought a Tesla to save money on fuel?

 

[bmms8]

Sorry to hear that. Our install was done more than 6 years ago. Company policies change. I know they merged two different companies since then.

Ahh that is probably the driving factor. Glad its worked out for you though!

 

[astrorob]

by the way, PGE will give you $500 outright for every EV/plug in hybrid you own... for me, $500 @ $0.12/kwh = 4167kwh = conservatively 15k miles of free driving.

Clean Fuel Rebate for electric vehicles

i've owned 3 cars that fulfill the requirements and so they've given me $1500.

 

[03DSG]

Where I am it's 14.4 cents/kWh off peak for 12 hours overnight and weekends/holidays. However our regular gas price right now for the equivalent of a US gallon is 4.62. So 400 km is $56 gas or approx $8.65 for electricity. That's a substantial savings.