Waiting4M3
Active Member
Something seems to be wrong with the calculator. No matter what amount of miles I drive per month I input, it's giving me the same electricity cost.
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Indeed. I'm in Pacific Gouge & Extort land and I just "love" how people throw around numbers like 12 cents/kWh to charge in PG&E-land. Yeah, great, but you get really hosed on EV-A with horrific time and bands for what's considered partial peak and peak coupled w/horrific rates during those periods. And, they talk about shifting usage. Well, I'm already on a TOU plan: E-6 and do shift my usage, which doesn't have time and day bands quite as bad. I also have some loads where I cannot shift their usage.
Folks who live in areas where their bill is overall only 12 cents/kWh in total w/taxes and fees even with huge usage (e.g. over 1200 kWh/month) have it really good compared to us.
I haven't had time to respond back to another thread on this subject.
Nosken
Active Member
This great tool, and I think it's from a tesla owner, that allows you to figure out your PG&E rates, and how they are affected in each of the rate categories. It won't help you with charging information.
My PG&E Toolkit Lite by Ndili Technologies, Inc.
My PG&E Toolkit Lite on the App Store
My PG&E Toolkit Lite by Ndili Technologies, Inc.
My PG&E Toolkit Lite on the App Store
Buying a Tesla with the plan to charge it on 110 and the concern is the utility's electrical rates. Seems like someone has some odd priorities.
Don't for get the value of your "time saved"
Not going to the gas station anymore, and admittedly doing occasional supercharging, adds up really fast....
But also note that there may be higher charging inefficiencies at 120V compared to 240V, i.e. losses due to home wiring, the UMC, the charging system in the car. Some see as much as 20-25% losses between the kwh at the meter vs what actually gets into the battery. 240V has losses as well, but I think folks who have tried to measure see generally less than 5% and worst case scenarios below 10%.
wow, that's really good rates. looks like In the right market you can save money on fuel !! Really impressed that they give you off-peak rates during weekend and holidays. Here in San Diego, we are charged 50 cents/kw to charge during noon-6pm, regardless of what day. Plus you get 12-hour off peak vs 5-hours a night for us. :O
BobbyKings
S85D > M3P > S Plaid
If you spend only 60$ a month on gas, why bother having a car at all?
Go cycling. Or e-bike cycling.
Go cycling. Or e-bike cycling.
Are you saying I actually should be concerned about charging it on a 110 v because of loss of efficiency? It is sufficient for "filling up".
I'm guessing you don't have too many mountains in the Netherlands.
Here's the elevation change of my current ~10 mile (16 km) commute:
As you can see, it would be uphill both ways.
I used to ride my bike to work years ago but almost got hit by two cars in one day. I haven't cycled to work since.
Are people really buying these cars to save money on fuel? I didn't think that was still a motivation. The operating costs of a typical EV have always been very close to an ICE car. I think for many folks its more about environmental impact and technology. And of course environmental impact only works if you are solar charging. If you are using PG&E, the pollution they create to produce your electricity may be as bad as the pollution the ICE car creates.
Incorrect on both counts.
According to the EPA, the Model 3 LR will save $4500 in fuel costs over the average car over a five year period -- it's right on the Monroney sticker. Some save more (like me), some save less (like @N5329K). There may be people with very high average electricity costs and low gasoline prices who don't save anything or even pay more but that is an exception.
Also, the Union of Concerned Scientists has estimated that the average EV in the U.S. is as clean as a gasoline car that gets 73 MPG. Cleaner Than Ever: Latest Numbers Show Electric Vehicle Advantage Is Growing It is much higher in California because our grid is relatively clean. Solar is even cleaner and for many people, cheaper.
not true depending on the circumstances - at 0.12c/kwh you're talking about ~3c/mile to operate an EV. call it 4c to be generous. owning a prius that gets 45mpg, as long as gasoline is > $1.80 per gallon, you come out ahead with the EV. of course if you are on E1 and paying 40c/kwh at 400% of the baseline, things are very different. now gasoline has to be $6/gal before you come out ahead with the EV. i've purposely used one of the better ICEs - if your current car gets 30mpg, well, you're ahead if gas is > $4/gal. it was not so long ago that we had gas prices like that in california.
the other thing is that the EV needs essentially no maintenance. the only thing i ever had to do with my leaf was get a new set of tires and put in a 12V battery. never needed brakes, nor obviously oil. even the ATF is good for 100K miles.
if you want you can pay a little extra to PGE to only use solar electricity from their grid-tied solar farms.
the pollution from electricity generation is also a dubious claim. the efficiency of an EV is much, much higher "well-to-wheels" than for any ICE car. also, i don't know why people don't realize that it takes electricity to make gasoline. and then the gasoline has to be shipped to stations using diesel trucks. that's extra energy that's gone into the system to create the fuel for an ICE car that is never spent for an EV. EinSV has posted a good reference.
Interesting. Like the OP I ran the numbers countless times with my Model X using cheap FPL power here in Florida and my cost savings on fuel was around $70 per month. To me that is insignificant but maybe to others it is important. The $4,500 on the Monroney translates to $75 a month. Doesn't seem motivational to me.
I should have clarified that I agree with the part of your post that many and maybe most people buy an EV for reasons other than saving $ on fuel.
It sounds like your savings of $70 per month is about average. Whether $4500 over five years is significant or not will vary -- may be less important for the average S/X buyer than for less expensive cars like the Model 3 but obviously it will vary from person to person.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
PV+EV is awesome.
For grid use I suggest using the UCS map
http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/attach/2017/05/cradle_to_grave_update.jpg
which breaks out by region in the US since the range is large.
The problem with the 73 mpg number is that it uses a sales weighted average, meaning that CA with its NG and clean energy grid have an outsized influence.
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I am planning to put the entire house onto TOU because I'm not a heavy user during the daytime when NEM is generating at the highest rate. Fortunately, I also have charging at work, so the system I'm in the process of installing should cover both the house and the 3.
I believe SDG&E has tentative plans to transition everyone (except solar customers who opted to grandfather to their existing plans for 5 years) to TOU, with peak rates ending at 9PM, in a year or two. My understanding is that the grandfathering deadline for existing solar customers has passed on 7/28/17, but grandfathering to the existing TOU plan/times is still available for new solar customers activated by 12/1/17 and grandfathering to the existing tiered plan is available until 3/30/18. (Scroll down to schedule NEM-ST: Time-of-Use Period Grandfathering for Net Energy Metering Customers | San Diego Gas & Electric.) The deadline is part of the reason I'm rushing to install solar now.
Bear in mind that, with most TOU rates, when you switch from non-TOU to TOU your off peak rates go down, but your rates for peak use go up. So savings on offpeak charging will be somewhat offset by increased charges for existing electric uses in the home.
