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Will Tesla made Type 2 ever be added to the standard?

Discussion in 'Europe' started by emir-t, Oct 21, 2016.

  1. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    As you know all European Tesla models seem to be using the Type 2, IEC 62196-2 Menekkes connector. In reality though, it is not the case. Tesla is using their own proprietary European market connector that just happens to be backwards compatible with Type 2 Menekkes.

    We know this because regular Type 2 standart connector can only handle DC loads up to 60-70kW without the additional DC pins making it essentially a CCS. Even with dedicated CCS DC pins it can handle 90-100kW.

    Since with EVs the male side of the socket is in the vehicle and you plug in the female side, Tesla made the prongs of the connector longer. When you plug in a regular Menekkes, female side is more shallow than the male so it doesn't go all the way from the reference of the car.

    With the superchargers though it is a perfect deep fit. That way they start a can BUS relationship instead of the analog talk of the Menekkes control pilot and Supercharger pumps 120kW DC into the port, without additional pins.

    If making it deeper and probably making the contact area larger in diameter at the deep side was all it took to make it better than CCS, why insist on CCS? Just add what Tesla did into the standards for DC. You'll have one geometry fits all and charging all the way from 3kW AC single phase to 22kW AC three phase to 130kW + DC.

    Anyone?
     
  2. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    Are you sure they have in fact made the pins longer? That was the rumour before the first Model S turned up in Europe, but I believe it was later discounted and the pins turn out to be the same length.

    It's not clear whether there is in fact any difference at all in Tesla's connectors (different materials, different sleeve geometry or somesuch), or if they are just the standard type2 pushed a bit harder with a limited duty cycle and temperature monitoring (which we know they do have) to detect when things get out of hand, I believe the standard ratings are intended to give safe operation at those currents for unlimited duration.

    If in fact it's the same, then this is already one of the options in the standards for use of the Type2 connector (DC on the 4 pins that would normally carry 3-phase AC), just Tesla's use of a non-standard CANbus encoding for the communication channel rather than the carrier-based signalling called for in the standards.
     
  3. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    However I believe standarts rate the Type 2 at 50kW DC without the additional combo DC pins. If that rating is indeed for unlimited time it makes no sense as there probably won't be cars around to take 50kW for hours.

    I feel like we need more sources and people with more knowledge on the matter but interesting stuff nonetheless.
     
    • Informative x 1
  4. emq

    emq Member

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    Teslamotors is member of the CharIn Initativ wich is most activ in germany. In this programm 2017 Switzerland will have some 150kW CCS-x? for 400V DC Accu Cars.
    For research in Switzerland will built at 2 locations, 6x350kW CCS-X? for 800V DC Accu Cars.
    Why should we go back to a propriatary Teslamotor Charging System incompatebl US/EU, when Teslamotors think about to be party of an worldwide open System with higher capacity.
     
  5. vigge50

    vigge50 Member

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    You should keep in mind that CCS is also different in Europe and US.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. emq

    emq Member

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    I am aware of CCS1 & and CCS2.
    So i say when Teslamotors think about to be party of a open System, with higher capacity, in a Type 2 or Type 1 area.
    Onesided Adapters from Open World to Teslamotors World are obsolet.
    Teslamotors will not be able to maintain a charging infrastructure wich excluds the open world
     
  7. emir-t

    emir-t Member

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    Same has always been said about Apple.

    Tesla will most likely add CCS to the Model 3. (if they want to take a breath and not take all the heat for congested Superchargers) However CharIn (or whatever the authority) could still add whatever modifications Tesla made to the Type 2 connector, that doesn't mean it will replace CCS. Speaking only from a form function, one inlet could have Tesla supercharger + CCS. Tesla will most likely have that capability with the Model 3 as I've said, 'other' auto makers could have that too and combine everything into one standard. There have always been speculation of Tesla opening up the Supercharger network to other cars in the past. Melting Tesla Type 2 + CCS developments in one standard would actually make that possible albeit I understand Elon's rage about CCS. No real need to make it that clunky and ugly.
     
  8. emq

    emq Member

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    [/QUOTE] Tesla will most likely add CCS to the Model 3 [/QUOTE]

    With CCS at Model 3 I asume TM supports CCS Infrastructure active. If TM adds Supercharger as downward compability, and limit to 65kW, to reduce Connector replacement, why should other OEMs follow a proprietary Solution, wich was not accepted in standardization, while higher Amperige in Standard is avalable?
    Elon's rage about CCS, could be the sadness, about non continuaty of Superchargers.
     

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