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Will the "Model 2" have a steering wheel and pedals?

Will the "Model 2" have a steering wheel and pedals?


  • Total voters
    60
  • Poll closed .

smogne41

Member
Jun 13, 2019
177
359
Pennsylvania
Little off topic, but can I ask what specifically you're unhappy with?

Not going to bash on your opinion, just genuinely curious.
Mostly the lack of manual wiper speed controls, since the auto wipers are not reliable in many conditions. Even if they would introduce a way to keep the wiper card persistent when in manual wiper mode that would be a huge help. To a lesser extent the fact I need to go into a sub-menu to turn on the headlights manually (I live in PA and headlights are required to be turned on in construction zones even in daytime). Not really a need, but I would love to have a physical switch between chill and normal acceleration as well so I could do that while driving :) My other major complaint is the 'holiday update' UI. Complete downgrade.
 
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daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,091
4,213
Kihei, HI
Tesla is not the leader in car manufacturing and it’s not even close.

I assume he meant "undisputed leadership in EV car manufacturing".

EvilNuff is correct: Tesla is the undisputed leader in BEVs, and BEVs are the future of ground transportation.

Mostly the lack of manual wiper speed controls, since the auto wipers are not reliable in many conditions. Even if they would introduce a way to keep the wiper card persistent when in manual wiper mode that would be a huge help. To a lesser extent the fact I need to go into a sub-menu to turn on the headlights manually (I live in PA and headlights are required to be turned on in construction zones even in daytime). ...

Totally agree with both of these points! Things as important as headlight and wiper controls should NOT NOT NOT require going into sub-menus on a touchscreen. Daytime headlights are not required where I live, but I believe it to be good practice. And the auto wiper setting produces the wiper level I want about 3/4 of the time.

And to get back to the thread topic, they cannot and they will not make a car without driver controls for sale to the public until they have Level 5 autonomy. Elon keeps saying that's going to be in about six months. I don't think anybody here believes that. By the time they have L5 ready, and can actually build a car without steering controls, they'll have to call it Model 587.
 

JHCCAZ

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2021
383
668
Tucson
Which makes them an attractive buyout for a company like Ford or GM.
I am no Wall Street expert, but I think to buy out a company you have to buy it a controlling amount of the shares. GM has a total market capitalization of about $75 billion, and Ford about $50 billion. Currently Tesla's market cap as well over seven hundred billion dollars. I'm not sure how the two of them put together could buy out Tesla. Certainly not by some scheme in which they leverage Tesla's debt or its sellable assets.
 
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EvilNuff

Member
Jun 8, 2015
77
76
Frisco, TX
And to get back to the thread topic, they cannot and they will not make a car without driver controls for sale to the public until they have Level 5 autonomy.
My point is that even with level 5 they cannot sell a car without controls! Level 5 is not sufficient for all the things we do with a car. Look at something as simple as replacing your tires (something we Tesla owners need to do often :)) You *must* manually control the car into the bays. This requires manual controls.
 

johnm

Member
Sep 16, 2014
52
58
MN, USA
My point is that even with level 5 they cannot sell a car without controls! Level 5 is not sufficient for all the things we do with a car. Look at something as simple as replacing your tires (something we Tesla owners need to do often :)) You *must* manually control the car into the bays. This requires manual controls.
The controls could easily be the giant touch screen in the middle of the car or (less easily) a person outside the car making hand signals.
 

daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,091
4,213
Kihei, HI
Fleet robotaxis without driver controls will be possible because they can be specifically programmed to drive around inside the fleet compound and enter and exit maintenance bays.

Self-driving cars for consumers will be available long before they are intelligent and agile enough to operate without driving controls. I suppose it would be possible to drive the car via an app, but I cannot see that finding enough public acceptance to justify mass manufacturing. Also, even an L5 car will sometimes (not every car, but some cars occasionally) find themselves in a situation where they require a human driver. Maybe a camera or other sensor fails and the car cannot drive itself.

It will be much longer before a car without driver controls can be marketed to consumers.
 

USCGDAV

Member
Aug 9, 2021
63
33
florida

According to this tweet about the Tesla employee meeting, Elon said that he is considering the "Model 2" not having a steering wheel or pedals. So I thought we could do a poll: will the "Model 2" have a steering wheel and pedals?

Also, I am putting "Model 2" in quotes because Elon has said that it will not be called that. It is simply a placeholder for the $25k Tesla since we don't have a name yet.

There are several things to consider:
1) We don't know when the "Model 2" will enter production.
2) We don't know what the state of FSD will be when the "Model 2" does enter production.
3) Regulations about steering wheels and pedals is tricky. I believe most cars are still required to have a steering wheel or pedal unless the speed is less than 25 mph or if you get an exemption. So there could be some regulatory hurdles there.
4) There are advantages in keeping a steering wheel and pedal as a back-up in case the car gets stuck or FSD stops working (ex: FSD computer is down).
5) Tesla could potentially use the "Model 2" as a geofenced robotaxi. That would be different from removing the steering wheel and pedals from a car that can go anywhere.

If the "Model 2" is only 1-2 years away, I think it is very unlikely that Tesla will remove the steering wheel and pedal. For one, FSD would have to get much better than it is now. Even if we assume that FSD will be good enough by then, Tesla would probably still want to keep a steering wheel and pedals as a back-up just in case or to give the driver the option of manual driving when they feel like it. Although considering how stubborn Elon is about the yoke in the Plaid, I would not be surprised if Elon said "you should not want to drive manually anymore, manual driving is dumb, so we are removing the steering wheel and pedals, take it or leave."

Elon saying they will "roll the dice with FSD" seems very cavalier to me. It seems to contradict his earlier statements about making sure FSD is safer than humans before getting regulator approval to remove driver supervision. Or maybe Elon, in his typical optimism, is just assuming that FSD will be safe enough by the time the "Model 2" rolls out. Frankly, this seems like Elon's typical getting ahead of himself.
Johnnie Cabs (all of them)
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daniel

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2009
5,091
4,213
Kihei, HI
It's so funny that the idea of a robotaxi back then was a humanoid-looking robot sitting at the steering wheel of a car. (Yeah, a flying car, but still...)
 

gatorpilot74

Member
Sep 13, 2021
9
3
Sparta, NJ
Guys, this talk of an actual car model being released by Tesla or ANY mfgr without any driving controls in any sort of near, intermediate, or borderline distant (depending on your definition of that word) future is completely absurd. That is obviously nowhere near happening on any forseeable horizon. It is simply internal and external goading by Tesla's leader to push his team on FSD to help make the dream of autonomous driving come through, and it's a free "emotional stir" to the Tesla consumer faithful to keep their hopes up.

This is nowhere near a reality. I'd say in 10 years you could give it a much closer look. 5? Not happening. Not even close.
 
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