Will you buy FSD before the $1,000 increase on July 1st?

[SammichLover]

I bow to your infinite wisdom of all things automotive.
Explain why your car is Full Self Driving and a Waymo AV van is not.

Your car cannot even check for cross traffic, so I assume Full Self Driving is geofenced to El Mirage dry lake with no other cars present?

Dude, do you even read?

Facts:
1) I have Tesla FSD features functioning in public distributed product, on public roads. Nav on AP is white listed but the other features aren't (and work in a lot wider environment than has been officially named). Daily. And really from the start it has had some awarenesses and reaction to cross-traffic motion, since that seems to be something you're really hung on? It isn't "public safe" to fully rely on it, but the progress is beyond what I'd expected. Of course I've long been a sceptic but telling that I've softened over time as results pile up.
2) Waymo AV and Super Cruise systems are both architectured around very detail, precise pre-mapped data (like cm level precision) to navigate. This inherently puts a very hard limit on where they can drive. In Waymo's case a geofence of a small list of select urban areas. For Super Cruise, a system that's actually shipping, it is limited to a relatively short whitelist of divided, no-intersection highways. Super Cruise's environmental awareness is relatively low (except for the IR camera driver eyes monitoring, that's pretty cool), way lower than Waymo's and doesn't try to do anything adhoc like FSD.

 

[Stickboy46]

Kinda.

You can order OEM PCs with no windows license on them (Linux, or DOS/No OS is usually how the option is coded by the OEM depending what and from whom) and then install using your own seperately-bought license (including system builder OEM licenses sold without a full PC preload).


But if you order a PC WITH a windows license (where the Windows OS is factory installed) that license goes with the PC when you sell it- you can't call MS and get yourself a free one in addition to the OEM one that stayed with the PC.

You need to go buy yourself a new license. (or buy a new OEM PC that comes bundled with one)

I've done this before. You are not sending it with the new one though. But you can transfer it. That is what we are talking about here. Transferring, not selling FSD AND getting it free on the next one.

 

[Knightshade]

I've done this before.

No, you have not transferred a manufacturers preinstalled OEM license

(not legally anyway on any recent windows 10 systems- at least not outside Germany where apparently there's an exception).

They're not transferable.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

That's the Windows 10 OEM license agreement.

Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows label including the product key

(bold added)


A preinstalled OEM windows license goes with the machine when you sell it


You know- just like FSD goes with the car you sell it with


You can not, legally, uninstall it from that machine and use it on a different machine per Microsofts written terms.

Just as you can not move FSD from a car it's on now to a DIFFERENT car.

Same same.

(that doesn't mean you can't try and illegally get an MS phone rep to reauthorize the copy by claiming you had a motherboard replaced in the original OEM machine I suppose- but that'd still be in violation of the actual license)

 

[TX_M3P+]

What if I only keep this car three years and move to a cyber truck?

Lets say you pay $7k for the upgrade now, but in 3yrs you'd have to pay $9k for the same upgrade. Your original $7k purchase is now worth $2k more, so you should be able to recover you initial $7k investment at the time you sell your M3.

Frankly 8000 dollars is ridiculous. 7,000 is too but if it keeps going up, I"m not going to be buying it at any cost as its just getting crazy already.

Agreed, the current $7K or $10K upgrade cost is pretty insane! For me, I bought my car used and it came with EAP, so my upgrade cost was only $4k. At that price point I decided to pull the trigger, so that I have a guaranteed path to FSD on this car. If I sell the car before FSD arrives then I know I can get sell the car at a price point that will recover my $4k investment. That's how I see it any way...

 

[Stickboy46]

No, you have not transferred a manufacturers preinstalled OEM license

(not legally anyway on any recent windows 10 systems- at least not outside Germany where apparently there's an exception).

They're not transferable.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

That's the Windows 10 OEM license agreement.



(bold added)


A preinstalled OEM windows license goes with the machine when you sell it


You know- just like FSD goes with the car you sell it with


You can not, legally, uninstall it from that machine and use it on a different machine per Microsofts written terms.

Just as you can not move FSD from a car it's on now to a DIFFERENT car.

Same same.

(that doesn't mean you can't try and illegally get an MS phone rep to reauthorize the copy by claiming you had a motherboard replaced in the original OEM machine I suppose- but that'd still be in violation of the actual license)

Thanks for telling me what I haven't done.

Sorry not gonna debate with you what I've done.

 

[JBT66]

I didn’t buy FSD for $3K during sale. I did buy AP for $2K. I’d maybe buy it for that if it they offered to early adopters again. $8K? No chance. Maybe if it started transferring to future cars on trade in.

 

[JBT66]

Thanks for telling me what I haven't done.

Sorry not gonna debate with you what I've done.

If it was an OEM key it should have stayed with the original PC. It was technically possible on older versions of Windows to move machines, but again with an OEM that was a violation. Today the key is stored in the bios. If it came with a RETAIL license you could have installed on a new system, but should have uninstalled it from the old machine.

 

[phantasms]

As things currently stand, no.

I don't even have AP so it would cost me $10k to go all in. Hard to put that into a 30k mile car instead of putting it into TSLA stock.

If it was transferable to a new Tesla, maybe I'd go for it.
If they did a buy FSD for $7k get AP for free, maybe I'd go for it.

Unless something changes I'll pass, but, I do have the $7k price locked in on a Cybertruck reservation and am considering throwing down a $100 to lock the price in on a Y should I end up going that route.

Best,
Gene

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Now that I think about it, it really makes sense that they are raising the price of FSD. Since I bought my Model 3 in December, I can tell that there are a lot more people that aren't drinking the FSD Kool-Aid around here. It used to be very unusual for forum members to express a lack of faith in FSD and Elon. Now it's common.

So if Tesla is seeing less people buying FSD, they need to get that money from somewhere, and that's the blind-faith owners and future owners.

I am so happy every day that I didn't blow $7K on FSD. If I did, every time I looked at my car, I would kick myself. Now I just enjoy the drive.

 

[jeremymc7]

Likely. When I bought my last M3 in Dec it was $6k and I hesitated. After delivery it was $7K. I’m getting another Tesla soon and likely will this time before it goes to $8K.

 

[acarney]

I think it should also be said that the sensor packages on the other development cars are still in the thousands of dollars. Even with the massive cost reductions they might right now add $5000-$10000 to the car... and if you’re putting that on a $40 to $50k car... that’s a significant additional cost to eat or pass on. That’s also not even covering development costs on the software.

Obviously Tesla’s system is no where near worth $7000 right now, let alone $8000, but for those comparing Tesla to others.... I would be curious what Tesla could do with a $10k sensor suite and their current software.

(I would suspect the current AP hardware might be less than $2000 in hardware costs... maybe even below that for Tesla)

 

[jonquiljo]

Now that I think about it, it really makes sense that they are raising the price of FSD. Since I bought my Model 3 in December, I can tell that there are a lot more people that aren't drinking the FSD Kool-Aid around here. It used to be very unusual for forum members to express a lack of faith in FSD and Elon. Now it's common.

So if Tesla is seeing less people buying FSD, they need to get that money from somewhere, and that's the blind-faith owners and future owners.

I am so happy every day that I didn't blow $7K on FSD. If I did, every time I looked at my car, I would kick myself. Now I just enjoy the drive.

I don't see a lot of people totally blown away by their FSD. I assume it's mostly people thinking it will get better in the future. But I keep hearing Tesla say - "it will be better soon." After a while, it makes you wonder. Soon, soon, soon!

As a non-FSD owner I assume I was supposed to be wowed by the visualiztions released last X-mas. Instead I saw a lot of cones, trash cans, stoplights and said "nope, not for me". Even as of today (may) I see really weak renderings of pedestrians. I guess I'm saying that the visualizations really don't make me feel so good about FSD. I was contemplating getting FSD when I bought the car in December - figuring I'd get it later as I got used to driving the car. The visualizations took away my faith in what FSD was going to evolve into.

I really like driving the car, and can't imagine I would ever want to be driven by the car. The best thing about a Tesla is the way they drive. It is kind of contradictory in a way. Buy a car because it drives so well, but then want the car to drive me? Half the fun is leaving the BMW drivers that want to race me to the next stoplight in the dust. FSD takes that fun away.

It's even more fun in a stealth as no one expects you to leave them at the gate.

 

[boiler81]

I'll gamble with Tesla stock purchase, but FSD every being worth $7K … ask me when Tesla gets Autopilot and TACC to work 90% of the time in the rain and snow.

 

[ucmndd]

Yes, but it continues to be fundamentally incorrect.

In 2016 it was 5k for EAP and 3k for FSD. 8k total.

In 2019 they rearranged things, and soon after they raised the price of all new Teslas (except the off menu SR) by $2000, but made basic AP standard... meaning they forced everyone to buy basic AP for $2000 regardless of it you wanted it. Plus charged $6000 for FSD.

$8000 total.

Same price a year ago

Then they raised FSD $1000. $9000 total now. $1000 more than it was in 2016 bought with a car.


It's going up another $1000 July 1. So $2000 more than in 2016 if you bought it with the car.


Just because they're hiding the $2000 every (SR+ or higher) new buyer is paying for AP doesn't mean it's not there.

Just ask the people who have an off-menu SR (and thus were not forced to take the "included" AP) how much FSD costs them today. (spoiler- it's not "less" than the 8k from 2016 as your post suggested, and it'll go up another 1k in July on top of that)


So your basic premise, that only after this new price bump coming in July, will FSD be "back" to costing $8000 total like in 2016, is not correct.



Hope this is clear enough for you now.

This is getting beyond silly and your argument keeps changing to something completely different - but I disagree with the notion that you can arbitrarily decide one of the dozens of base price increases or decreases over the years counts toward autopilot pricing while all the rest of them don’t.

FSD required $8,000 in options above the base price in 2016.

For every car except the off-menu “we sell it at a loss and don’t really want you to know it exists” SR model 3, FSD requires $7k in options now and $8k in options come July 1 (again, if Elon can be believed, which is far from a safe bet).

Tomato Tomato.

It was a bad deal in 2016 and unfortunately it’s still a bad deal at the same price in 2020.

 

[robl45]

Lets say you pay $7k for the upgrade now, but in 3yrs you'd have to pay $9k for the same upgrade. Your original $7k purchase is now worth $2k more, so you should be able to recover you initial $7k investment at the time you sell your M3.



Agreed, the current $7K or $10K upgrade cost is pretty insane! For me, I bought my car used and it came with EAP, so my upgrade cost was only $4k. At that price point I decided to pull the trigger, so that I have a guaranteed path to FSD on this car. If I sell the car before FSD arrives then I know I can get sell the car at a price point that will recover my $4k investment. That's how I see it any way...

Agree a bit on the logic that the increases could make it valued more but you are putting it on a depreciating asset. If you sell the car, you aren't getting full value back for the fsd upgrade if the car has 40k miles.

 

[Knightshade]

This is getting beyond silly and your argument keeps changing to something completely different

No, they don't.

They've been the same in every post- your claim, and math, are fundamentally wrong.

FSD has always cost at least $8000, and has cost more recently.

So your original claim that it's "finally" getting back up to 8k is incorrect based on actual math.

Unclear why/how you keep being confused about this fact.

- but I disagree with the notion that you can arbitrarily decide one of the dozens of base price increases or decreases over the years counts toward autopilot pricing while all the rest of them don’t.

Given that one happened literally at the same time it's not, at all, arbitrary. It's obvious.

Like, Tesla said this is why they raised the price

An Update to Our Vehicle Lineup

All Tesla vehicles now come with Autopilot bundled as a standard feature for less than the prior cost of the option. For example, Model 3 Standard Plus used to cost $37,500, plus $3,000 for the Autopilot option. It now costs $39,500, with Autopilot included.

Did you catch that? They LITERALLY raised the price $2000 because they're now including AP for $2000 more money.

FSD required $8,000 in options above the base price in 2016.

This is the only thing you've been correct about the entire discussion, so yes.

For every car except the off-menu “we sell it at a loss and don’t really want you to know it exists” SR model 3, FSD requires $7k in options now and $8k in options come July 1 (again, if Elon can be believed, which is far from a safe bet).

Except that they explicitly pointed out you are sitll paying $2000 more for basic AP on all those cars

You simply don't have a choice not to take it.

So FSD as of that announcement cost... $8000.

Which was actually DOWN from the $9000 it cost for a couple of weeks when basic AP was $3000 and FSD was $6000.... so $9000 (MORE than 2016)

After that change it became Basic AP 2k (forced take) and $6000 FSD. $8000 total. Same as 2016.

Then FSD went up to 7k- so it became 9k again- more than 2016.

Now it's going up to 8k- so 10k total.... more than 2016.

Other than that really weird/brief/Tesla-admitted-it-was-a-mistake FSD sale in Feb for a couple weeks, FSD has never been cheaper than 8k. And for much of the previous year it's been more


So again- your original claim that it's "finally" getting back to what it cost in 2016 is wrong.



Where do you remain confused on this fact, specifically?

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks for telling me what I haven't done.

Sorry not gonna debate with you what I've done.

I'm not saying what you have or have not done.

I'm saying what you have or have not done legally and I cited the actual license from Microsoft proving what I'm saying is correct, and basically matches how Tesla handles FSD.

It's tied to the one specific piece of hardware and is not transferable, legally, to another one.

 

[SilverString]

If FSD gets much more expensive AND it actually succeeds, how long before Tesla splits off a more affordable "Light" version with Autopilot and similar capabilities as in the current NOA suite for highway driving? That is really all I want, something beyond TACC but without FSD all the bells and whistles so to speak.

For instance, having had a repair for body work and seeing the cost, I rarely find a compelling reason to use summon. Reverse summon seems more dangerous, and it is not something I would use or miss. I like the auto park and trust it, but I rarely need or use it. And on and on.

 

[Knightshade]

If FSD gets much more expensive AND it actually succeeds, how long before Tesla splits off a more affordable "Light" version with Autopilot and similar capabilities as in the current NOA suite for highway driving? That is really all I want, something beyond TACC but without FSD all the bells and whistles so to speak.

...never?

That's what they used to sell (as EAP) before they switched to the current model where you get basic AP for a $2000 base car price increase, and everything else is a single package.

Seems very unlikely they'd switch back.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

it somehow gets totaled, I'd have to repurchase it all over again.

Wouldn’t you simply increase your insured value by the cost of FSD & keep increasing it every time Tesla does?