Will you buy FSD before the $1,000 increase on July 1st?

[SilverString]

...never?

That's what they used to sell (as EAP) before they switched to the current model where you get basic AP for a $2000 base car price increase, and everything else is a single package.

Seems very unlikely they'd switch back.

Well I never say never...

 

[TX_M3P+]

Agree a bit on the logic that the increases could make it valued more but you are putting it on a depreciating asset. If you sell the car, you aren't getting full value back for the fsd upgrade if the car has 40k miles.

Agree on the depreciation of the car, but you will still get at least ~$7k more for the car than you would without FSD, despite the depreciation.

 

[silentcorp]

I was lucky and got enhanced auto pilot when it was available, I feel like that is the best option for price and functionality. I won't be upgrading to FSD until there is a very real and compelling reason to do so.

 

[SammichLover]

Now that I think about it, it really makes sense that they are raising the price of FSD. Since I bought my Model 3 in December, I can tell that there are a lot more people that aren't drinking the FSD Kool-Aid around here. It used to be very unusual for forum members to express a lack of faith in FSD and Elon. Now it's common.

So if Tesla is seeing less people buying FSD, they need to get that money from somewhere, and that's the blind-faith owners and future owners.

Tip: You'd be taken [slightly] more seriously if you drop the "Kool-Aid" and "fanboi", it just makes you come off as lazy and superficial. The core issue though is you're demonstrating that you have no clue about actual facts. Easily verifiable facts, even.

Poll: Now that they are increasing FSD from $3k to $5k, will you be purchasing it?

Less than 60 seconds to use Search to find that. It's like you're not even trying, I'd guess not even caring about accuracy of what you type.

I am so happy every day that I didn't blow $7K on FSD. If I did, every time I looked at my car, I would kick myself. Now I just enjoy the drive.

Enjoy it how? By regaling your passengers with tales about things you have no experience with? By prattling on and on about how all the software in the car is total crap? Or are you just sitting there and talk to yourself, because no-one can stand to ride with you anymore?

 

[jmatero]

For Super Cruise, a system that's actually shipping, it is limited to a relatively short whitelist of divided, no-intersection highways. Super Cruise's environmental awareness is relatively low (except for the IR camera driver eyes monitoring, that's pretty cool), way lower than Waymo's and doesn't try to do anything adhoc like FSD.

GM’s upcoming Ultra Cruise is not fully autonomous, but hands-free everywhere, not just highways.

GM Super Cruise grows into Ultra Cruise, hands-free driving everywhere.

 

[SammichLover]

I don't see a lot of people totally blown away by their FSD.

Probably fair to say I am, although sorting between EAP and FSD feature set is tough. Their re-org where they split EAP into two and then bundled some of the features into the price of the car definitely made the decision tougher, because of how large the jump is now.

I've checked out the new visualizations, kinda cool additions they've made, but truth is it has always worked better than the visualization lets on. The working model underneath that gets turned into a visualization is a lot better, and it definitely reacts to things that don't show up there. Which makes sense, because there's a lot of limit to what you can squeeze into a small, 2D human readable screen area like that.

EDIT: If you hunt around the Model S forum there's someone that's hacked their system and uses the actual internal data model to overlay graphics onto camera footage. It is really interesting.....and easy to see why it wouldn't be appropriate for Tesla to display it on the terminal. I don't know where that's at, now in comparison to Model 3 HW3. If anyone has been able to pull out the new data model.

 

[Knightshade]

GM’s upcoming Ultra Cruise is not fully autonomous, but hands-free everywhere, not just highways.

GM Super Cruise grows into Ultra Cruise, hands-free driving everywhere.

And, just like L4/5 FSD, that product isn't actually available yet.

The product you can buy from GM TODAY (and only on ONE model of car, though that's improving for 2021) is just as much-more-limited-than-Teslas-you-can-buy-today as the guy you are replying to said.

Parks didn't provide a timeline for when Ultra Cruise might be available.

They're "working" on it... they "hope" to deliver the things they're talking about... eventually...maybe...

 

[SammichLover]

GM’s upcoming Ultra Cruise is not fully autonomous, but hands-free everywhere, not just highways.

GM Super Cruise grows into Ultra Cruise, hands-free driving everywhere.

Read on, I had already addressed that way back on post #7. Vapourware.

"We're trying to take that same capability off the highway," he said. "Ultra cruise would be all of the Super Cruise plus the neighborhoods, city streets and subdivisions. So Ultra Cruise's domain would be essentially all driving, all the time."

Note "trying to" and the future tense used in the quote.

Parks was quick to add that this would not be autonomous driving. Advanced driving assistance systems have become more capable, but they still require a human driver to take control and to be paying attention.

They're skating towards where Tesla is right now with the puck. Maybe not even that, hard to say. They aren't really giving details yet, probably because they don't really have any handle on how far they think they can get.

EDIT: "Parks didn't provide a timeline for when Ultra Cruise might be available." That's from a company that's giving a multiple years ahead timeline for Super Cruise deployment to extend it past its very limited availability. And with no current way, or named plans, to roll out the future software to vehicles being currently built.

 

[dimachaerus]

Wouldn’t you simply increase your insured value by the cost of FSD & keep increasing it every time Tesla does?

You're right. I'm dumb for overlooking that. But i still wish FSD stayed with the account

 

[Gizmo35]

This is easy. Did not buy at $6000 so definitely will not buy at $8000. Too much attention and nagging required from what I have seen. Easier for me to just drive the car.

 

[jmatero]

They're skating towards where Tesla is right now with the puck. Maybe not even that, hard to say.

True. But it’s pretty obvious now that the entire car industry (well, minus Toyota) is moving to electric. I suspect Tesla will be in the lead for a while in the technology department... and will charge a premium for it. But I have little doubt that GM, Ford, VW, and Hyundai-Kia will all have fully electric, sub-$30k vehicles on the road in the not to distant future with great range, dynamic cruise, and enough accident-avoidance tech to please the masses.

It’s always been my belief that Tesla is redefining “luxury” and “premium” in the industry. We’re moving from rich Corinthian leather, hand-stitched dashboards, and plush carpeting to over-the-air updates, autopilot/FSD tech, and battery tech. It’s the reason so many new Tesla Model 3 owners complain “there’s no excuse for these paint and body panel issues in a brand new $60,000 car!!!!” and “How can a top of the line Model 3 not have an auto open/close trunk and massaging seats???”

It’s because Tesla’s category-1 is technology... you’re paying a premium for high tech. Remove the batteries, install an ICE, conventional dash, and metal roof in a Model 3, and you have a sub-$20k Ford Focus.

And to be clear, I’m not dissing Tesla... I’m giving them recognition for reinventing the car. Now, if they could just get the car assembly thing right.....

 

[robl45]

I think as someone else said, the price should be depreciating with the age of the car, if you have a 3 year old Model 3, are you going to pay 8000 for FSD when you might use the car for 3 more years? I know at least when I was looking for my car a few months back the FSD and EAP cars were selling for more, but I expect that to moderate very soon just like any other car where the difference between the fully loaded one and the stripped one at used prices is relatively minimal.

The point being made about price increases potentially increasing the value is a valid one and at the very least may counteract the depreciation but I am very skeptical at how much more could realistically be charged for FSD. Are you gong to walk in and buy a car for say 60K and plunk down another 30K for the FSD feature? I just don't see that as being realistic. Especially when at some point, the hardware is going to become a commodity and the software is going to get out like anything else and become a commodity too or open source.

Finally, I really feel that FSD at least with whatever Tesla is doing is years away. I wouldn't mind paying a couple of grand for say NOA, maybe the autopark feature is cool, I don't know, the summon though just seeing videos is a waste.

 

[SammichLover]

Remove the batteries, install an ICE, conventional dash, and metal roof in a Model 3, and you have a sub-$20k Ford Focus.

That's some seriously overblown hyperbole. The frame and suspension is legit, and the interior materials and appointments aren't anything like 'budget'. Spartan esthetic shouldn't be confused with "budget", ask Apple.

However it is true that the "luxury" part of the Tesla is cornered on tech.

 

[SammichLover]

I think as someone else said, the price should be depreciating with the age of the car, if you have a 3 year old Model 3, are you going to pay 8000 for FSD when you might use the car for 3 more years?

Depreciating over time (or probably more appropriately, miles) definitely makes sense. However it isn't really clear how long a tail that should be with the Model 3. Given what Tesloop has seen, it should be depreciating quite slowly. As well given that it is an actively improved product, you shouldn't be seeing the levels of depreciation normally seen for stagnant features.

 

[robl45]

That's some seriously overblown hyperbole. The frame and suspension is legit, and the interior materials and appointments aren't anything like 'budget'. Spartan esthetic shouldn't be confused with "budget", ask Apple.

However it is true that the "luxury" part of the Tesla is cornered on tech.

I think I would agree for the most part, the interior is not exactly luxury. The seats are budget, they aren't even Leather. Calling them Vegan Leather doesn't change the fact that they are Vinyl LOL.

 

[robl45]

Depreciating over time (or probably more appropriately, miles) definitely makes sense. However it isn't really clear how long a tail that should be with the Model 3. Given what Tesloop has seen, it should be depreciating quite slowly. As well given that it is an actively improved product, you shouldn't be seeing the levels of depreciation normally seen for stagnant features.

I suppose, but there still is useful life of the car. For me I just got the car a few months back, the car was 7 months old when I got it, so July 1st its basically a year old. I plan to keep it for 5-6 years, so would it be worth it now, maybe, it would be more worth it if Tesla came to their senses and charged a reasonable amount for what the car can actually do and then maybe add on costs for features down the road.

 

[Knightshade]

True. But it’s pretty obvious now that the entire car industry (well, minus Toyota) is moving to electric. I suspect Tesla will be in the lead for a while in the technology department... and will charge a premium for it. But I have little doubt that GM, Ford, VW, and Hyundai-Kia will all have fully electric, sub-$30k vehicles on the road in the not to distant future with great range, dynamic cruise, and enough accident-avoidance tech to please the masses.

To be fair- people had little doubt about that 5 years ago too- and where are the cars?

Remember, early this decade VW insisted they would be the leader in EV sales by 2018.

It's now 2020 and they don't have have plans to sell any BEV in the US this year (except whatever leftover antique eGolfs are left)- and the ONE model they're HOPING to sell in Europe is piled up undelivered in parking lots because nobody at VW knows how software works (and even if it wasn't they'd maybe hit 10-20% of Teslas annual sales volume on it at this point)


That's not to say there's never going to be real competition, but we've been hearing about it for a long time, and yet keep getting stuff that's either well behind (Leaf/Bolt/Soul EV/whatever the hell Jaguar is failing to sell to anyone), stuff that's roughly caught up to say the 5-years-ago Model S for double the current S price (Porsche), or stuff that doesn't actually make it to production at all (the tons of concepts from tons of vendors like Honda, BMW, etc that never went anywhere)

The nearest to a "real" competitor (that still isn't being delivered yet) is the Mach E... and it's only competitive until the $7500 rebate runs out (and even then max production is expected to be 1/10th of Teslas)

 

[SammichLover]

I plan to keep it for 5-6 years,

Upon which you'll sell it. So fully amortizing it over only that length is repeating the same mistake.

For what the car can actually do.

While other vehicles can't really do what the Model 3 does, making the comparison difficult, this level of money is actually reasonably inline with tech feature pricing in automobiles. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[SammichLover]

The seats are budget

ROFL

No, they most certainly are NOT. I've had Benz owners get in and sit and "oh, that's nice". The electric adjustable by itself puts outside of your stipulated category.

I'd do a quote build to show you, but Ford has discontinued the Focus....I assume you're working with a talking point list at least a few years old?

 

[thx1139]

There is no way on earth the (current) FSD feature set over Autopilot is worth $7000. Now, if some of these items were à la carte, I might reconsider. I'd happily pay for the auto lane-change feature. Self-parking? I've had it in 2 cars now and used it maybe once... takes longer to park than doing it myself. Summon? Nope. I could walk to the car quicker than it will drive to me.

Now... I WILL say that if they offered, say, a subscription service for under $100/month, I'd try it. Mainly because I don't keep my cars more than a couple years. Rather pay $2400 over 2 years than $7000 and ANOTHER $7000 for the next Tesla (plus interest as I finance).

Understood, but also realize when you go to sell after a couple of years you can be either someone selling without FSD versus someone else selling the same car with FSD. Likely since FSD will be $8000 or more to add to your car the other person can sell the car for $8000 more then you can.