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We have a lot of different experimental marine energy generators being installed at the moment. If they do struggle with the environment, we'll find out soon enough.

But the reality is we need all of it - marine, onshore wind, offshore wind, the lot.
 
We have a lot of different experimental marine energy generators being installed at the moment. If they do struggle with the environment, we'll find out soon enough.

But the reality is we need all of it - marine, onshore wind, offshore wind, the lot.

Yup. For a brilliant discussion on the subject of running UK from renewables, read David MacKay's study http://withouthotair.com/.
 
If Lord Carlile doesn't find electricity useful, as he must, since he opposes clean generation, I suggest disconnecting him from the grid.

GSP

I suggested the same remedy for the Kennedy family, due to their opposition to the Cape Wind project. They eventually lost. :cool:
 
I suggested the same remedy for the Kennedy family, due to their opposition to the Cape Wind project. They eventually lost. :cool:
I quipped a few years back to Jim Gordon (president of Cape Wind Associates) that he'd never get the project built until Ted Kennedy and Walter Cronkite died. I was somewhat embarrassed when the following year, they both obliged.
 

A first thought might be "that's a contribution to global warming". But the net effect is cooling earth, IHMO. Let me explain:
Starting with night fall, temperatures of soil and air near the surface start to drop. The higher atmosphere is sort of isolated from that.
Now the study found that wind turbines mix cool air near the surface with warm air from higher above, creating up to 0.72°C higher ground temperatures near Texan wind farms.
IMO this increases infrared radiation, a part of which leaves the atmosphere. The effect is small but so are 0.72°C.
 
I refuse to believe that "mixing" warm and cool air has any net effect on overall global temperature. Perhaps it has an effect on local meteorology, but there's no way that it has a net effect on overall global temperatures. The upper warm air would still have been warm whether or not it was mixed with the lower cool air. And obviously it's less warm overall once it's been mixed with the cool air.

This is half-baked science.
 
I read similar articles over the weekend and they were all missing some context. There should be a comparison, or at least a mention of the local change in temperature around coal fired power plants, natural gas turbines, or even nuclear power plants. All of which thermodynamically depend on sinking heat to the local environment. The wind farms might be affecting local temperature, but they have to be compared to what they are replacing.

Here is good story on smart wind farm placement:
Living on Earth: Scotland's Wind Farms Have Environmental Drawbacks
With 140 turbines generating up to 322 megawatts of electricity, powering up to 180,000 homes, this, you might think, is clean, green energy at its best. But because this wind farm and many others are built on peatlands, they are not completely free of carbon emissions. Peatland is nature’s way of storing CO2 and disturbing it releases this locked up carbon and kicks off the decomposition of the organic matter.
 
Ow. That's not good. Peat should not be significantly disturbed, as it takes thousands and millions of years to develop. Of course, more damage has been caused by draining peatlands outright than by construction in them. But when they say "many" wind farms are built on peatlands, that must be Scotland-specific; putting wind turbines on peat is not something you'd do anywhere which has any solid ground.

I remember reading about the peat-bog preservation movement 20 years ago; this is a well-understood problem. Sad to see they haven't made much progress. :-(
 
The team simulated 28 billion combinations of wind, solar and storage technologies using projected 2030 prices and historical weather and PJM load data from 1999 to 2002. (The PJM grid extends from Chicago east to New Jersey.)
The winning, most cost-effective combination turned out to be a whopping amount of wind power and surprisingly little storage.
The analysis found that wind power alone could meet all of the grid’s power needs 90 percent of the time if utilities over-built wind generation capacity to equal about 180 percent of peak load — around 140 gigawatts in PJM’s case.
In Iowa, another view on how to solve winds variability | Midwest Energy News
 
Interesting -- this aligns well with a study of the Danish system I read a while back, which concluded that a 2x overbuild would be needed. The difference in numbers would be easily explained by the greater wind diversity in the Midwest vs. Denmark. Studies like this are always critically dependent on the assumed cost of storage and health costs. The role of active demand response seems to have been relegated an emergency back-up plan, too.

Is it fair to worry about the study's quality just because the author teaches at a community college? Typically a study like this requires a lot of RA time and sophisticated modeling, neither of which is usually available at community colleges. Or am I just being a snob?