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Worn tire replacement question

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Plug Me In, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. Plug Me In

    Plug Me In Member

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    Question regarding cost of tire replacement

    Tried to search but there's a lot of posts on this subject. I'm told my 19" non-perf rear tires are worn and need to be replaced after 10K miles. Raleigh SC quoted me $640 to get the rears done. What have people been doing about the cost for this? Obviously there have been some alignment issues underlying the problem and it isn't a case of simple wear on the tires. If simple wear was the issue, then they would be under warranty. I need to call them back this AM to authorize the work but I'm wondering if I should try to negotiate the price, i.e. tires at wholesale cost, etc. I could probably make a case for "this a problem with the car, not the tires and you guys need to fix it", but don't really want to push it that far. Thanks for advice.
     
  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    10k miles seems somewhat reasonable for a set of rear tires. I have 12,000km on my 19" OEM Goodyears and they are at 6/32 all around after one rotation. If there is grossly uneven wear with the cords are showing on the inside rear, and the rest of the tire has plenty of tread depth then I would tell Tesla that you think an alignment issue has caused the wear. Ask for an alignment and if the TOE is way out of whack then ask for a discount etc. on the tires. If the wear is even then I would just pay for a new pair of tires.

     
  3. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    10k miles for 19" OEM goodyears is *NOT* normal. That is a factory defect and should be covered under warranty (probably an alignment issue, like everyone else). For comparison, I have 32,000 miles on my original stock OEM 19" Goodyears and I still have about 7/32" front and 6/32" rear. These tires should last you 50k+, not 10k. I would fight to have them replaced under warranty and stand for nothing less.
     
  4. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

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    You get ridiculous mileage out of your tires because you have a massive commute (a ton of steady state driving). Spirited driving with a lot more city km's will eat tires twice as fast easily.

    I stand by my earlier statement that if they are worn evenly there is no defect.

     
  5. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I took my 19" Goodyears off at about 15,000 miles and all four are in good shape with plenty of tread. Lined up in my garage, I could not tell you which came off the front and which came off the rear if I didn't look at the markings the tire shop put on them.
     
  6. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    You're reading different things because they've been different causes. Some people are experiencing premature tire wear because they are more aggressive. Some owners are upgrading from a tread compound where 50-60,000 miles on a set is normal and they're having to realize what a performance car will do. Some people are experiencing premature tire wear because the alignment was not to specification.

    As I understand Tesla has pulled the issue back to corporate and has a team looking over these reports of tire problems. The service center can work with them to look at your specific case.
     
  7. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    Actually I am a pretty aggressive driver, pretty heavy on the acceleration from every stop too. I certainly don't baby it (lifetime ~370Wh/mi). 10k miles is not normal wear, even for city driving. Well, unless you sit around doing donuts and figure 8s every weekend...
     
  8. JohnQ

    JohnQ Active Member

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    Have to agree with yobigd20 on this one. I put 7,200 on my Goodyears before swapping to my winters. While I haven't measured remaining tread on the rears there is a ton left. I drive 50/50 highway and surface roads for my commute. 10k is fast for an all season tire.

    Regarding the price, you can get a pair of Goodyears on TireRack for $250 plus ~70 bucks total to mount and balance depending on your local shop. So, yeah, $640 is a bit high if that's what you're replacing. A pair of Primacies are ~$550; that's much more in line with the price you were quoted.
     
  9. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    If the issue is inside tire wear then definitely push Tesla on this. you can be firm and stand up for yourself without being "snippy". First ask for a free alignment job and request the numbers in advance. if the wheels are towed out with no signs of impact/accident causing the issue, as seems rather typical as of late, then Tesla should cover the full replacement cost of the tires and alignment IMHO. I think it's time we all put our foot down and call BS on this claim that 5K is "normal" for performance tires and 10K is "normal" for all seasons when there is an obvious issue with alignment going out. If Edmonds gets their tires replaced FOC, so should you! http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-tire-wear-post-mortem.html Tesla apparently needs pressure to fix the real issue. bottom line, it takes a barrel of oil to make a tire, the car is far from any zero emission claim when it's burning through hundreds of gallons of petroleum a year in tires if it's due to an alignment issue!
     
  10. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    probably the only reason they haven't done that is that basically they'd need to recall every vehicle for alignment check, and anyone who has alignment off and inside wear should get free alignment and new tires. anyone whose paid to have tires replaced would need to get reimbursed. imagine 20000 vehicles recalled, each needing a new set of $1000-$2000 in tires and alignment work and reimbursements? ... obviously not very good for Tesla. need to keep pressuring them on this issue...
     
  11. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    Imagine how much more expensive the remediation is going to get the longer they wait to deal with it front and center! Also, it's got to be having an impact on marketing the P and P+. I went and bought a tire gauge and noticed the uneven wear pattern starting early on my P+, took it in for a alignment and sure enough it was out... immediately ditched the 21's with the uber pricy tires for TireRacks Rails and Primacy's for a fraction of what it would have cost to do the turbine 19's through Tesla. I'm very happy with the work around but sheesh, it's a lot to expect of a buyer when they have plunked down the big bills just to get back to something reliable.

    If they deal with the issue, it might just quietly go away, given how generous a lot of us are, but it really needs to be made a non-issue quickly, IMHO.
     
  12. Plug Me In

    Plug Me In Member

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    Thanks all,

    Spoke with the service center this AM, one of the techs and not the service manager who makes the final billing but I was told the tires were worn down to the cords on the inner portion. An alignment with the bolt placement correction was done. I'm not much of a performance car guy, so I'm sure others know more of the details on this fix.

    These are the Michelins, which are available on Tire Rack for $500 for full set. Turns out about $135 of the $640 is for alignment which I will get knocked off as I have the full service/warranty plan. The car's going to be sent back up to me tomorrow and payment is expected when they bring the car back. I'm emailing the service manager tonight and will register my concerns about this being at least partially a factory/alignment issue. I think we could expect some increased wear since this is a heavy, high torque car, but $500 every 8 months I think is a little much. FYI - service experience, otherwise, has been great from the Raleigh service center. Timely service, convenient and great communication.
     
  13. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    here's proof from tonight that I have 32k on mine w\ pics: 19 Tire Wear (informal) Survey - Page 20 still have 6/32"-7/32" on all tires.

    at least you dont have 21s. most people have to replace the rear tires every 5k for the 21s.

    I mean really though, looking at your sig, besides the fact that I have a Perf model, we basically received the car the same time and in close enough climates to each other. I was Seq#13306, VIN5837, Delivered 03/06/13, have the 19" OEM goodyears and air suspension .... only difference again is that I have the Perf and triple the miles as you, yet my tires are just fine.... I'd still push for free replacement under warranty on this one. Those Michelins are rated better than the goodyears so technically they should last longer...
     
  14. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    This is incorrect.

    Most people do not have to replace the rear tires at 5k. Most people are getting between 10-15k on a set of 21" tires when properly rotated. However, there are a set of cars that have excessive negative camber (mine were between -2.0 and -2.6 degrees), and are suffering from premature inside shoulder tire wear. On top of that, mine was exacerbated by the fact that the alignment machine in the service center was incorrectly programmed by the manufacturer.

    The key here is going to be whether you suffer from that inside shoulder problem (look for tire scrubbing at a 30-45 degree angle from the contact surface on the inside shoulder of the tire), or if you're just an aggressive driver and are wearing the intended contact surface of the tire. The former is due a conversation with Tesla, the latter is not.

    See the photos here:
    Checked Alignment: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly - Page 9

    Note that the wear bars in the grooves of those tires (even the most inside groove) are still well below the surface of the tire, yet the cords are showing on the inside shoulder. If your tires look somewhat like that, then you have a case. If your tire tread has been worn such that it is flat and even with wear bars, I don't think you have a case.

    As I mentioned, I have heard that Tesla has taken the judgment call for tire replacement out of the service centers to a team at corporate; they look at alignment readings and photos of the tires and make an appropriate call. The service team can help provide the proper data.
     
  15. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    different things may be effecting different folks but I think at least in some cases it's more than excessive camber. I think the intense torque is causing a "breaking in" of some of the parts, resulting in a toe out tendency for some of us in the rear, requiring a re-alignment. having to constantly rotate and or replace tires is a pain in more ways than one and I think the underlying issue needs resolving.
     
  16. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Why only on weekends?

    - - - Updated - - -

    (a) Agree.
    (b) Not enough data (for me) to agree or disagree.
     
  17. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I had toe-out on the left rear at 1500 miles (could tell by the feathering). Replaced the tires and have the same toe out at 1500 miles on the new tires (now 15,000 miles total). At 1500 miles (the first 1500 miles) I asked for an alignment (the front tires were also heavily feathered from toe-in) but was told the alignment was "perfect". My conclusion is that their alignment machine is poorly calibrated or the wrong specs were put in. I've talked to the Service Center and Ownership about it but so far no action. I'm less than impressed.

    The point here is that there has been no change in alignment since new, so I'm not buying the breaking-in hypothesis. I do buy the "toe out causes the tire to try to fold under the wheel during turns exacerbated by excessive camber" hypothesis because there are two distinct wear patterns. One is a small amount of sloped wear across the tread face and the other is a very steep wear on just the shoulder.
     
  18. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    @jerry33: You lead them to the water but they refuse to drink. They could run a quick toe check of their machine with a simple string test (close all the doors & turn off the fans). Or maybe they think you are one of those geezers who only make right turns. :smile:
    --
     
  19. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    In my case, the machine had the wrong specs - it called for toe out in the rear, and toe in on the front. The service center had to call the manufacturer to get the correct specs put in place. If they obtained the same machine, it could be the case it's programmed wrong as well. You might suggest to the service manager that the St. Louis service center ran into problems and perhaps connect the two service managers.
     
  20. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I actually did tell them that, but I didn't recall which Service Centre. Next time I'm there I'll do that.
     

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