We love our two Teslas (2020 X and 2021 model 3); brother has a model Y. I've tried to convince my fellow boomer buddies to get Teslas (wonderful for seniors). I haven't been successful with my sales pitch. Reasons were expense, (by people who can well afford the car), learning curve (by very bright folks who still have their wits in their 70's), challenges of charging (by people whose homes have no driveway or garage - but only drive 100 miles a week), you name it. But now I'm hearing a new reason which is that they would be embarrassed to drive a Tesla because Elon's behavior: Twitter, January 6 denialism (Tucker Carlson). Whatever your politics, we are all potential Tesla customers and most companies try to stay apolitical to not alienate any customers. I'm posting this because I am worried about the future of the company. Are you?
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Worried about the future of Tesla
- Thread starter Marge S
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scottf200
Well-Known Member
I certainly have lost respect for Elon in several regards but appreciate other regards. I'm still keeping/driving my Tesla and have plans for another. No great alternatives especially with the charging network.
Tesla is made up of way way more than just Elon for a while now. Investor Day Presentation was a recent reminder of that. 1000s of very hard working professional across many countries. I can separate the two. I'm not worried about Tesla's future and for the first time am buying some stock directly (vs via mutual funds) for the benefits in 5+ years of growth.
dburkland - Excellent summary and pictures:
TeslaTap.COM summary:
Tesla is made up of way way more than just Elon for a while now. Investor Day Presentation was a recent reminder of that. 1000s of very hard working professional across many countries. I can separate the two. I'm not worried about Tesla's future and for the first time am buying some stock directly (vs via mutual funds) for the benefits in 5+ years of growth.
dburkland - Excellent summary and pictures:
Tesla 2023 Investor Day – 2023-03-01
March 1, 2023 by dburkland
TeslaTap.COM summary:
- 2023 Investor Day Highlights
- NexGen is a vehicle platform for multiple new products that uses a new production process
- NexGen Drive Unit uses 0 grams rare earth and reduced silicon carbide in inverters for lower cost
- NexGen Vehicle will have 100% controllers designed in house (2012 MS had 20%)
- Cybertruck and future vehicles switch to a 48V system instead of 12-16V
- Goal of NexGen vehicle is 50% cost reduction over the Model 3/Y
- NexGen vehicle Gigafactory announced to be near Monterrey, Mexico
- Anonymous vehicle data collected on 123M miles driven daily & 1.9M charge sessions daily
- During vehicle assembly, the vehicle's computer self tests and validates modules when connected
- Vehicle diagnostics and related tools now addresses over 33% of customer concerns and orders any necessary parts
- Tesla has over 30 PB (Peta Bytes) of training video for FSD, growing to 200 PB size
- Optimus Prime robot is expected to be worth more than vehicle side of Tesla in the future
- 9 TWh of Charging provided in 2022, with 99.9% site level uptime
- Opened 10 Supercharger sites in USA with CSS option for non-Tesla vehicles, with more on the way
- Magic dock Superchargers allows the choice of NACS (Tesla) or CSS connection
- V4 Superchargers starting to be installed in Europe, which have longer cables
- > 50 billion electronic components are shipped inbound to support factories and service each year
- Goal is to produce 40,000 vehicles a week this year
- Tesla has built over 4M vehicles over the last 12 years
- In past 6 months, reduced time in service by 11%, and reduced in service appointment wait time by 9%
- Battery production for future 4680 needs a tenth of the volumetric space as required to produce 2170
- Tesla building new factories for processing anode and cathode battery materials in Texas
- Produced over 16 GWh of Energy products (Megapacks and Powerwalls)
- Tesla now has over 129,000 employees
- Bi-directional vehicle power expected within the next two years with future production
- Expect to increase the capability of the neural net training system by a factor of 10 this year
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TarmacSurfer
Member
Tesla isn’t going anywhere. That said, their short term challenges are (1) restoring USS functionality / getting away from the ridiculous “Tesla Vision” approach, which is just a mistake and (2) getting rid of Elon as CEO.
If they do those two things and keep the engineers doing what they do, they’ll be a force to be reckoned with for a long time.
If they do those two things and keep the engineers doing what they do, they’ll be a force to be reckoned with for a long time.
I could care less what Elon says on Twitter. I don't choose cars based on the CEO.
Me too,and I don’t belong to twitter. Even if Tesla is far more than Musk, he is the sole face of the company in the public eye and IMO his twitter BS reveals his inner ugly …just the way I view it.
My MX is an amazing vehicle but when it is time to look at replacements, Tesla will have the disadvantage of the association with Musk. Not because of public opinion, because of my own.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Aside: Latest public brouhaha with Elon going after an employee he fired that has muscular dystrophy. Pretty impressive background: Haraldur Thorleifsson
Elons response was to this tweet that was something else!
Elons response was to this tweet that was something else!
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CapeOne
Active Member
I would be hesitant to try to sway or convince friends too much as you just don't know what the future holds for a company. Also, their experience may end up being not as good as yours whether it be due to quality issues, customer service issues or whatever. Answer their questions, yes, but let them reach their own conclusions and decisions.
Some would argue that Elon's "behavior" has been questionable for years. I think in some ways he is certainly and asset but in other ways he is a liability. If people would be "embarrassed" to drive a Tesla because of Elon then there's little you can do or should try to do. Again, let your friends reach their own conclusions and decisions.
I think there has been reason to worry for years but not necessarily because of Elon, politics or whatever. The EV market is going to remain volatile for a while as new and existing companies try to carve out their pieces of the pie, adjust to changing competition, etc.
ATPMSD
Active Member
All of the items mentioned in the first part of your post impact all EVs - someone is either ready to embrace EVs or not. As to Elon, he has become a wild card and if people do not want to support the companies he runs, that is of course is their right.
The best part of Tesla is they are way ahead of everyone else in the EV space in pretty much every aspect. Their biggest problem is their horrible customer support / service. But I expect they will wise up once they start to lose real business to competitors, which sadly for current owners, is still a ways off.
If someone asks me about Tesla I extol the virtues of the car, and caution them on the apathy of their support.
The best part of Tesla is they are way ahead of everyone else in the EV space in pretty much every aspect. Their biggest problem is their horrible customer support / service. But I expect they will wise up once they start to lose real business to competitors, which sadly for current owners, is still a ways off.
If someone asks me about Tesla I extol the virtues of the car, and caution them on the apathy of their support.
Elon is polarizing.... and water is wet. Right now, Elon hate is probably at it's highest. The only question is why do people hate Elon? I conjecture it's because of his politics. Just like during the Vietnam war where the silent majority was for the war in Vietnam and vilified those that were against it... but ultimately those that were against it were uplifted and made to be role models to a certain extent. Just like how during the civil rights movement, a lot of people hated MLK, or Rosa parks, etc. Only in current times have perceptions have changed and the movement is considered to many as being just.
Elon's politics will hurt Tesla only if through time he is proven wrong with respect to his politics. Right now, there is more than enough people who agree with his politics, don't care enough or likes his cars more than hate him; that he is able to sell cars and his company is doing well...
Elon's politics will hurt Tesla only if through time he is proven wrong with respect to his politics. Right now, there is more than enough people who agree with his politics, don't care enough or likes his cars more than hate him; that he is able to sell cars and his company is doing well...
Wilber
Member
But, did you see his tweet that was something like: "I am not going to change what i say just to help the TSLA stock price."? The implication is that he considers his own loud mouth as more important than the future of Tesla the company. But, on the bright side we saw at the Investor Day presentation an emphasis on presentations by many Senior managers. That helps assure investors that Tesla will do fine without Elon. We can hope that is the first step to Elon leaving the CEO position and becoming some kind of 'advisor.....'.
In January 2023 - the marketplace saw roughly 87k EVs sold. 57% of those were Tesla EVs, but 43% of those were non-Tesla EVs. The competition is already here whether Tesla or anyone else realizes it or not. Tesla had better wise up sooner rather than later - given their market share has already fallen from 90% down to 57% over the past few years (and falling still). Granted - long term Tesla's business plan calls for only a 20% market share by 2030 - but still - their miserable customer experience practices are only going to hasten market share declines if they don't get their act together - especially on the pre-sales process side of the house - first impressions are everything when it comes to gaining new customers.
Nope.
I don't really care that much about Elon, or Tesla.
There are plenty of other EV choices out there now.
If someone wants an EV and dislikes Elon, they will buy VW/Audi/Porsche, BMW, Kia/Hyundai, Nissan, Volvo, Mercedes, Rivian, Ford, Chevy, whatever they like more.
If someone is disinclined to buy an EV, Elon is an increasingly expedient excuse.
All else being equal, given Elon's abysmal management direction at Twitter, the best long-term outcome for Tesla maybe to flush Elon. Alas, that may be easier said than done,
I am very grateful for what Elon has done in making Twitter a more level playing field for different viewpoints, and for exposing the censorship and distortion that prevailed under the former Twitter regime.
That said, I hate that his work at Twitter has damaged Tesla as a brand. It's unfair and I disagree with it, but I can't deny that it is real. As a new Tesla owner I've been surprised by friends and family reactions to me telling them I bought one. They are interested in EVs but invariably make a negative comment about Elon.
My hope is that as the cultural pendulum swings back towards sanity, Elon's reforms at Twitter will be seen positively by a larger chunk of the population. In addition, I hope that he would step back into an advisory role at Twitter and focus on Tesla and SpaceX, where his real genius as a manager of engineers can be most effectively deployed.
That said, I hate that his work at Twitter has damaged Tesla as a brand. It's unfair and I disagree with it, but I can't deny that it is real. As a new Tesla owner I've been surprised by friends and family reactions to me telling them I bought one. They are interested in EVs but invariably make a negative comment about Elon.
My hope is that as the cultural pendulum swings back towards sanity, Elon's reforms at Twitter will be seen positively by a larger chunk of the population. In addition, I hope that he would step back into an advisory role at Twitter and focus on Tesla and SpaceX, where his real genius as a manager of engineers can be most effectively deployed.
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Not sure what people are smoking in this thread, Tesla is winning left and right, look at the *numbers*, not Elon's tweets:
My take on this is, is that Elon can keep doing what he's doing, but he'll have to engineer his story better, just as he does with tech.
My second take on this. If you are driving a Toyota... maybe the CEO of Toyoda is a very bad person. How much do we know? And this goes for every brand on the planet. So not buying a car because of the behaviour of one of it's directors is stupid imho.
CapeOne
Active Member
I wouldnt necessarily put too much weight into "one week" or "one quarter" worth of data especially as the auto industry has been working though supply chain issues which could still be skewing some results.
Other data has been less positive for Tesla. For example, Tesla's global BEV market share continues to drop, declining to 18.2% in 2022. Its plug-in market share (BEVs and PHEVs) dropped to 13% in 2022.
It's easy to cherry-pick positive or negative data but the reality is that the EV market is going to remain volatile for a while.
That's USA, Clearly Europe shows oops:
Or maybe China:
Tesla is raising it's market share globally, in this year. Like it or not. Last year market was taken by BYD. Now seem that Tesla is beating BYD in their home market (as a model, we see how it goes).
Or maybe China:
Tesla is raising it's market share globally, in this year. Like it or not. Last year market was taken by BYD. Now seem that Tesla is beating BYD in their home market (as a model, we see how it goes).
zoomer0056
Active Member
It's the media... If I listened to the media, I would be worried also... Get past the media and look at the hard facts (or just listen to other points of view), Tesla is not in a bad spot.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
Not quite sure the difference in these charts where BYD is has higher numbers. I don't think NEV is what I thought since Tesla is listed. [ie. Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV) ]
China NEV insurance registrations for week ending Mar 26: BYD 43,490, Tesla 15,886, Nio 1,909
Nio is on track to reach its guidance, with 9,199 vehicles registered in the past four weeks.
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