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Would Elon Bring a Fleet of Lincoln Navigators to a Meeting with Google?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by 22522, Jul 29, 2017.

  1. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    #1 22522, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
    Trying to sort things out. There is a story of Mark Fields bringing a fleet of Lincoln Navigators to a meeting at Google. It was a near final step in an agreement for Google to close a deal to provide self driving technology to Ford. Mr. Fields, and his posse, were excited about how Wall Street would respond to this agreement.

    So Mr. Fields goes back to Dearborn and starts working on a slide deck so that he can present this great agreement to the board at Ford, his bosses. The meeting is scheduled and he has practiced several times.

    3 Days before the board meeting, he gets a call from Google, "We are not going to do it. Sorry."

    Let's go to the theme that contempt destroys relationships... It is actually the perception of contempt that destroys. It might even be a misidentification, but the outcome is the same.

    I think Mr. Fields was just blind to the importance of the environment to Google.
    But it looked and felt like contempt. Google said, "Not a match."

    Elon is kind of acting like Mr. Fields in his ignorance of the value of money to the middle class. He is doing this in two ways, maybe because he is paying too much attention to Wall Street, like Mr. Fields did just before Google walked away.

    With Mr. Fields, it was crushing. With Elon it might be death from 100,000 cuts.

    Here are the two things Elon is doing that put him in opposition to his customers, the car is great by the way:

    1. Putting a $1000 fee on choice. There need to be two free colors, and one of them needs to be low maintenance. People who spend their work days with little discretion cherish the opportunity to make choices outside of work. Elon should not make it punitive. Today he is. The original contract for the deposit did not say "Black Paint: Standard." Also black paint is worse for global warming. The last Energy Secretary almost said you could make a dent in it by painting every roof white. So it appears that Elon is treating middle class income, middle class children and the environment with contempt by punishing deviation from black with a $1000 fine.
    2. Running the fully loaded battery longer than he has to. That puts the price at $50K, if you don't want black. It also consumes more batteries, lithium, nickel and cobalt than you have to. Those resources would be better applied to semi trucks. He has lost sight of the idea that businesses are in place to efficiently serve society... All spun around and confused. And he is taking more money than he has to, from people who need it. Treating the customer's money with disrespect, or contempt. Treating the environment with contempt. Acting like a car dealer. Morphing into a car dealer, right before our eyes.

    Elon please look in the mirror. Your design and manufacturing teams have done a spectacular job. The car is wonderful. Don't morph into just another car dealer. Don't repeat Henry Ford's greatest mistake. People have long memories if they paint you in opposition to their families. You kind of live there for eternity. These two business practices make it hard to paint you any other way but confused and disrespectful.

    They are pretty easy to fix. You have a great product. Please spend more time talking to JB about what Tesla's mission is, and less time listening to MBAs from second class schools.

    (This is a little extreme, considering all that Elon has done, but it is setting up an oppositional dynamic that will be hard to change. Sell more stock if you have to, but don't get crosswise with your customers. Move to the same side of the table and help them meet their goals.)
     
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  2. RubberToe

    RubberToe Supporting the greater good

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    Uh huh, death from 100,000 cuts for sure, because Tesla is charging $1,000 for choosing a non-black paint color? :rolleyes:

    Tesla just delivered a $35,000 EV ($25,000 after incentives) that goes 210 miles, and can cross the country Supercharging.

    Talk about not being able to see the big picture. Reality, meet Mr. 22522.

    RT
     
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  3. Vitold

    Vitold Active Member

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    Model 3 is not a car for the masses. It's a car for 1000000 people who can afford BMW M3.

    Your are waiting for a different car - one that does not exist yet.
     
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  4. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    You are going to beat this color thing into the ground. If it really means that much to you, just pretend the car cost $36,000 rather than $35,000 and all the paint colors are free.
     
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  5. calisnow

    calisnow Banned

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    You have a point but I do not think it is as big a deal as you do - so it's a $36K car in other colors. Okay.

    Huh? Do not understand your sentence.

    Okayyyy comrade - are you in charge of central planning? You know whether a semi truck or a Model 3 customer needs some lithium more?

    WTF?

    Say what?


    Making the Model T available in any color as long as it was black? No? Some other mistake? Please enlighten us.

    Elon Musk - family destroyer. :sob: Wait what?????? He is charging $1,000 for silver paint and offering a larger battery than you prefer - so he's DESTROYING YOUR FAMILY???

    Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 3.42.53 PM.png

    giphy.gif

    Screen Shot 2017-07-29 at 3.46.42 PM.png

    310 miles range for $44K. Totally destroying families. Totally anti-goal!
     
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  6. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    [​IMG]

    22522, let me help explain this to you.Tesla cannot exist as a viable, growing company, continually improving EV tech, growing the market and driving down costs without being profitable. They're not about making botique halo cars. They're not a garage operation. They are a serious endeavour involving billions of dollars in capital.

    And they're making a vehicle. A vehicle with incredible specs, even if we've gotten numb to them because of the obscene performance of high-end Model Ss. A vehicle loaded with features. I mean, the thing comes standard with using half a dozen cameras, a dozen ultrasound sensors and a radar to avoid crashes, for crying out loud. 220 miles EPA range - ever priced and specced a Leaf lately, for comparison?. And the whole vehicle is built around a battery pack that on its own contains $12k worth of cells. That's not "the battery pack costs $12k", that's just the cells within. Slash, $12 right off the top of their profits, before they even build the car.

    How do you reconcile these things? Being profitable, and delivering an incredible, groundbreaking car? Seriously, how do you do it? I'll tell you how you do it, you do it by encouraging those who are able to to buy options, so that those who aren't able to can still get it for $35k, a price where Tesla makes little profit. Let me put this in other terms: the people who buy options are subsidizing the vehicle for you so that you can get it for $35k.

    I know you want the moon. Well, welcome to the real world, snowflake. Things cost money.
     
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  7. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    I agree! Please cancel and convince 10 others to cancel! TIA!!! You ROCK!! :D
     
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  8. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    image.jpeg
    I like your post. Thank you.

    Help me process what is going on here with the first box delivery date option above.

    What do you think is going on?

    Why should I do business with this company, as a first resort?

    Maybe as a last resort?

    Where is the goodwill?

    Looks like a stock I've gone long with half my retirement savings is committing suicide to me.
     
  9. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    You're looking at a list providing very rudimentary information about delivery dates of different featuresets. Which should be pretty obvious. The fact that different configurations take different lengths of time to produce and test should also not shock anyone, although it apparently shocks you.

    Honestly? I don't think you have the maturity to be buying a car at all. From anyone.
     
  10. calisnow

    calisnow Banned

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    Okay let's try again - please explain your argument. Not a series of questions or dramatic statements. You're attempting to make some kind of ethical point here but not backing it up. Here's how you do it:

    Premise 1
    Premise 2
    Premise x,y,z

    -----------

    Conclusion derived from above premises (sometimes stated as claim at the beginning instead of conclusion at the end by itself).

    Please give us your argument and then we can respond.
     
  11. strykeroz

    strykeroz Member

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    I'm not. Frankly it goes against much of the fibre of my being to be considering a US-built car at all. But since it's the only product to tick so many boxes, and there are zero options from my standard "safe" options out of Japan (I used to have a german choice too, but they've recently proven untrustworthy) I'm up for taking the risk.

    In response to the OP though - I guess our reservations prepaid for better colours. And I agree, black is a poor default.
     
  12. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    Sure, it is about process capability. When I am working with someone I expect them to help the team win with a best effort.

    This chart shows Tesla's production capabilities as far as having production process sorted:
    image.jpeg

    This chart shows the offer to my team (reservation placed 40 days later because I don't believe in sharp elbows, but do believe in the Tesla mission and wanted them to have maximum leverage with suppliers).

    image.jpeg
    So a 40 day difference becomes 6 months of differentiated treatment. Treatment not consistent with working together or goodwill. Or process capability.

    At least at first blush.
     
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  13. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

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    #13 KarenRei, Jul 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
    Exasperating doesn't even begin to describe how people like you make me feel. "Sense of entitlement" and "refusal to comprehend anything about the challenges in building new production infrastructure or the costs in producing a high performance EV" are a bad combination.

    You waited 40 days. Well, guess what? Something like 200-300 thousand people reserved during that period. The mistake is not Tesla's, it's yours. Get over your sense of entitlement. If you don't want to wait and don't like what's on offer, go to some other company that's making a $35k 5,6 second 0-60 220 mile base model EV with crash avoidance features standard and all the rest and has already started on deliveries.

    I live in Europe. I have to wait until "Early 2019". Do you see me whining about it?
     
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  14. calisnow

    calisnow Banned

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    Serious question - what do you do for a living, how old are you, what's your education level and what did you study? I'm really curious.
     
  15. Chargedmr2

    Chargedmr2 Member

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    This thread is nonsense. Stop making Texans look bad. Please.
     
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  16. chadever

    chadever Member

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    You can get a Model 3 in any color for 35k, as long as that color is black.


    I laughed. This might be my favorite thing about the car.
     
  17. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Process capability is about hitting a measurable Ppk, Cpk goal, usually 1.33 or higher. Not sure how this applies to a Model 3 yet. Or ever. These are component level calculations based historical or in process measurements.
     
  18. b team

    b team Member

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    I am starting to lose perspective. Are all these people who are complaining serious? Do they have large short positions in Tesla stock? Is someone forcing them to buy a Model 3? I hope some enterprising individual launches a site dedicated to bitching about the Model 3, then hopefully we will be rid of this pox.
     
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  19. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Haha. Yeah.

    Customer base is changing. It's a sign that Tesla really is hitting mainstream. So part of me wants to celebrate how far they've come. And the other part of me wants to bang my head against the wall.
     
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  20. 22522

    22522 Active Member

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    The car is great. Short term stock price is good. Cultural mis-understanding of the importance of money to the middle class may limit Tesla's success.
     
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