Would you trust FSD?

[blazeform]

Soon" is a relative term. AP/EAP have been in beta for four or five years now and I've not seen any indication that Tesla is planning to remove the beta designation any time soon. I believe that full autonomy is coming, but right now I'd be surprised if it's here within a decade. I have no expertise in such systems, but I'm observing the rate of progress, and it's very slow.

I agree. By "not any time soon" I mean not soon enough where its worth anticipating its arrival. I don't think we'll have real FSD within a decade, but something like "FSD compatible" routes are pretty likely within the next 10 years. Waymo has already shown that FSD is possible for certain routes in certain cities (though they use lidar tech), and Tesla will come under increased market pressure to produce something that can confidently bare the FSD title, thus I predict they will eventually release full, hands-off-the-wheel FSD for use on very particular and well analysed routes in certain cities to meet this market expectation.

 

[Knightshade]

I tried the auto lane change thing in a test drive car that had FSD. I did not try auto park, navigate on autopilot or summon. (summon was demonstrated to me, but this was just the old forward/back one as enhanced summon did not exist back then) The lane change seemed silly because you had to manually click the blinker and it took forever because it seemed overly cautious.

For driver initiated changes it's a lot better now than what you describe-- it's VERY quick to change lanes.

Nav on AP will also make lane changes on its own either to follow the route or to pass slower cars- you don't need to initate anything.... (it will check your hands are on the wheel though)- those are still fairly cautious giving you the chance to "interrupt" if you think the car shouldn't be changing lanes when it thinks it should.

Auto park isn't useful to me because I can count the number of times I've needed to parallel park in the last 5 years on one hand.

It'll perpendicular park as well.... though it's fairly slow at doing it.

NOAP doesn’t seem that useful if there is the possibility it will miss your route.

I've never, ever, had it "miss" a route.

Once in a blue moon the car will tell yuo a specific exit is unsupported and you need to manually do something- but it tells you in advance enough you shouldn't miss anything if you're paying attention and as I say it's pretty rare.

(GPS and maps exist everywhere, there is no excuse for this)

FWIW most navigation maps are out of date. Even the "current" maps from various services are often months old at best because it's impossible to keep 100% accurate real-time maps of the entire country. There's always construction going on all over the place.

So things like a highway under construction where the lanes shift- it's entirely possible the maps might not know this yet- ditto where a temporary exit might not reflected in source maps.... ditto an exit that didn't exist until very recently or one that was moved.

That's not a Tesla issue specifically- every mapping service is always at least a little out of date most places where changes are happening. Again pay attention and you'll be fine.

Regular summon is not something I'd ever use because if a space is truly that narrow, I wouldn’t want to park there anyway for fear of dings.

Some folks use this to pull in and out of narrow garages at home.

Also sometimes you park normally in a space with lots of room- and return to find some other idiot parked so close you can't even open your door- regular summon is pretty damn helpful there.

And enhanced summon seems like a party trick with a law suit just waiting to happen

Weird- it's been out what like 5 months- and 0 lawsuits I'm aware of.

It IS kind of a novelty- but it's saved me from having to walk to my car in the rain a few times so that was handy.

You have an older car so I wonder if you have HW3 yet?

Nope. Since there's still no functional benefit I figure the longer I wait the better since:

A) The service centers will have more experience doing the swap
and
B) I'll get the latest revision of the part (I think they're up to like revision H or J or something by now?)

In my car, when auto steer is enabled you have to literally tug the wheel every 20-30 seconds so that it knows you're there. Applying constant pressure does not work.

The wheel has no idea of "pressure" in the grip sense.

It's a torque sensor. It's looking for resistance to autosteers own moving of the wheel.

I can lightly rest my hand in several different spots and nags are non-existent or very very rare.

Plus you can always just use one of the scroll wheels to clear a nag too.

I think this was added to HW3 to prevent the trick where you just hang a weight off the wheel. Because of this it makes auto steer a lot less useful, IMHO. It's more work to constantly tug the wheel then to just steer by yourself. And you have to tug it just right. Hard enough that it registers but not had enough to disengage the system. It's really not a relaxing experience. Auto cruise control is great and takes some stress off the driver. In my experience with auto steer it adds stress, it doesn’t take it away.

Your the only person I've heard cite this issue- might be something wrong with your car- maybe check with service?

 

[MobileClimate]

If wasn't for the FSD package i would not have purchased a model 3 ..I purchased after watching autonomy day video on you tube ...I have the no nag fix for the steering wheel ..it works great for freeways and some residential areas ..I only take over when merging on to a freeway ..and any spot where i see that the lane lines could be an option.. I simply monitor the system at all times and be ready to take over at any second

 

[daniel]

...FWIW Elon doesn't use beta in the traditional (this isn't a product that should even be used by the public) sense... here he is on twitter explaining it:

Point of calling it "beta" was to emphasize to those who chose to use it that it wasn't perfect.

Nothing's perfect. In 25 years when all cars are fully autonomous and there are 300 traffic deaths a year in the U.S. instead of 35,000, is Tesla still going to say its cars are "beta"?

You're not supposed to be using AP on lots of those roads of course

So, when "feature complete" is rolled out, does that mean people with "FSD" will have Tesla's imprimatur to use AP on those city streets?

I wonder how many folks don't "trust" the current system because they keep seeing it occasional poorly handle something it's not even intended to handle in the first place.

I find that, in my driving, EAP/AP perform on all streets exactly as expected. Which is to say, it requires continual monitoring and cannot handle certain conditions and circumstances.

I feel that City NoA at Level 2 will be useless because there are too many events that require such rapid responses that if you wait to see if the car is going to respond and it does not, it will be too late. On the highway there are so few events requiring a rapid response that I seldom have to intervene.

 

[Knightshade]

So, when "feature complete" is rolled out, does that mean people with "FSD" will have Tesla's imprimatur to use AP on those city streets?

Given one of the explicitly described features of it is literally "Automatic driving on city streets" obviously yes.

 

[Atari2600]

I would until the cameras are either dirty or blinded by the sun and immediately have to take over. I’m really beginning to wonder if cameras are enough. I regularly get dirty or blinded camera messages and this is my only grip about the system so far.

 

[SteveS1979]

Maybe I'm not holding it right, but if I just hold the wheel in and way that is actually comfortable to me it complains. I have to give the wheel a little tug to satisfy it. And I've read others on here with newer cars say the same thing. Maybe something in the physical hardware of the wheel changed and not just HW3?

This is my experience as well.

 

[daniel]

So, when "feature complete" is rolled out, does that mean people with "FSD" will have Tesla's imprimatur to use AP on those city streets?

Given one of the explicitly described features of it is literally "Automatic driving on city streets" obviously yes.

My point being that it's going to require a truly monumental improvement to go from highway-only AP to City NoAP. Given the slow pace of progress so far, it seems to me they are a long way from even that step. Especially given that to date, "FSD" is nothing but EAP + Promises.

 

[rickdogg82]

FSD will go the way of 3D TVs. Unless infrastructure is updated to accommodate it, and cars can "speak" with each other, it will never happen in a meaningful way.

 

[DopeGhoti]

I doubt I'm going to trust it out of the gate, but much like with AP, NoAP, and SS, I will certainly try it. Probably starting out on ideal-case clear, empty roads and gradually easing in to more day-to-day scenarios.

 

[daniel]

I doubt I'm going to trust it out of the gate, but much like with AP, NoAP, and SS, I will certainly try it. Probably starting out on ideal-case clear, empty roads and gradually easing in to more day-to-day scenarios.

Yep. That's the smart way to approach it. And, speaking for myself, I'll also wait until other, braver, folks have been using it for a few weeks.