Yoke steering confirmed variable-ratio

[stopcrazypp]

I'm sure there are decent cost savings associated with not having the stalks. Also, the stalks are a point of potential mechanical failure that is now replaced by a simple non moving button that is unlikely to fail for the life of the vehicle. I don't know about the S, but I know many 3's had malfunctioning stalks that had to be replaced to fix them. The entire steering column assembly needs to be replaced to do it, which includes both stalks + other components.

I understand replacing the stalks with the capacitive buttons may give savings, my point on those is that those are independent of the yoke (aka they could have had a regular steering wheel with the same design).
In fact, we have both a rendering and a real life example of a non-yoke version of the same design!
Tesla Model S refresh spotted with 'regular' steering wheel - Electrek

I'm talking about cost savings purely from a yoke style steering wheel (not talking about the stalks). I highly doubt taking that top part off really saves much, if any money.

 

[Wol747]

Square tires? Elon has already applied "alien teechnology" to solve that dilemma: his version will be triangular which eliminates one bump. Rumor has it the three-sided wheel will be fittingly introduced on the Model 3 in Q3 this year.

Actually I think you're mixing them up with the two dimensional ones that eliminate drag entirely?

 

[tr1sk]

I understand replacing the stalks with the capacitive buttons may give savings, my point on those is that those are independent of the yoke (aka they could have had a regular steering wheel with the same design).
In fact, we have both a rendering and a real life example of a non-yoke version of the same design!
Tesla Model S refresh spotted with 'regular' steering wheel - Electrek

I'm talking about cost savings purely from a yoke style steering wheel (not talking about the stalks). I highly doubt taking that top part off really saves much, if any money.

Agreed--I wouldn't be surprised if they relent and allow standard wheel as an option... still stalk-less of course.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Agreed--I wouldn't be surprised if they relent and allow standard wheel as an option... still stalk-less of course.

The Yoke wheel shows as a no cost option on the options list. Of course, so does "plaid" but it lends credence to your suspicion (and mine) that the round wheel will return.

 

[Wol747]

Stalkless would still be the turn-off for me.
It’s rather like evolution - the things that actually work have become de facto standards in just about all cars from all manufacturers. In evolutionary terms, outliers tend not to reproduce if they confer little or no advantage.
I will bet that few manufacturers will buy into this particular mindset, and will gain market share because of it and there will be a big second hand Plaid market turnover.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Stalkless would still be the turn-off for me.
It’s rather like evolution - the things that actually work have become de facto standards in just about all cars from all manufacturers. In evolutionary terms, outliers tend not to reproduce if they confer little or no advantage.
I will bet that few manufacturers will buy into this particular mindset, and will gain market share because of it and there will be a big second hand Plaid market turnover.

Evolution only happens when there is change. The industry may have just stuck with the same solution and never tried anything significantly different, so everyone just kept using the same thing (and many times the same suppliers). It's the analog to inbreeding in terms of evolution. It does not necessarily mean there aren't other "better" solutions that can be found if someone was willing to trying something different.

 

[Wol747]

Well, we'll see won't we! I'm perfectly happy to be wrong but it still wouldn't mean that I would buy one however good the rest of the car might be - and there are numerous software faults and poor implementations of the displays in the present Ss which should have been identified and fixed years ago.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Evolution only happens when there is change. The industry may have just stuck with the same solution and never tried anything significantly different, so everyone just kept using the same thing (and many times the same suppliers). It's the analog to inbreeding in terms of evolution. It does not necessarily mean there aren't other "better" solutions that can be found if someone was willing to trying something different.

Actually, one of the hallmarks of evolution is the simple fact that the less efficient among a species die out prior to being able to reproduce and keep their gene lineage alive. Those that are most efficient see their genes expressed for generations to come thus assuring the best examples of a species thrive.

But hey, someone has to see if that colorful frog is as tasty as it looks so if you're that guy... Be our guest. Me? I'm good with a round steering wheel as I'm not trying to impress a mate to breed with my yoke steering wheel stripped from KITT of Knight Rider fame.

 

[2101Guy]

"The rectangular steering yoke, as expected, is a total pain to use at low speeds. The Plaid's 14.0:1 steering ratio needs to be at least twice as quick to make parallel parking, multiple-point turns, and U-turns less frustrating and more intuitive. Alternatively, a variable-ratio steering system could help at lower speeds, too".

Tesla Model S Plaid First Test: 0–60 MPH in 1.98 Seconds*!

*Under very specific conditions dictated by Tesla, that is.

www.motortrend.com

 

[israndy]

Wow, this thread seems anemic compared to the comment traffic at this Electrek article from yesterday:

Tesla is sticking with yoke steering wheel; Elon Musk says progressive steering is still years away

 

[AperiodicCoder]

Kind of a head scratcher from the company who recently threw away all form in favor of function on the new Cybertruck

Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but this had me chuckling to myself because the only thing I worried about with Cybertruck was the yoke! So they threw away almost all form in favor of function there.

 

[Altair7]

Wow, this thread seems anemic compared to the comment traffic at this Electrek article from yesterday:

Tesla is sticking with yoke steering wheel; Elon Musk says progressive steering is still years away

Translation: "No, we don't have the rest of the system worked out to make the system safe, reliable, and natural to use. But I like my fashion statement and am sticking with it anyway."

Time to surf over to lucid.com and take another hard look at the Air. The way things have been going with this "18 day refresh" the Air might be available sooner.

 

[israndy]

I believe you mean: https://www.lucidmotors.com

But really, a bird in the hand... Lucid hasn't started shipping, Tesla S's are going out on trucks as we speak

 

[Wol747]

I would have thought the sensible thing would be to make the car as per the Raven wheel and stalks and offer the yoke as an option for $xxx. It's such a fundamental change with so many drawbacks for only two (possible) pros - better sightline to the binnacle and the geewhizz factor that it HAS to impact sales. I personally can see every part of the binnacle anyway but then I'm 5'8".

 

[israndy]

The Rob Maurer Tesla Daily podcast made it sound like this was the way it's gonna be as new models come out. Round is dead.

I did like the yoke wheel that HansShow just debuted for the Models 3/Y, if it were cheaper I'd be all over it. Looks like it's pretty easy to turn lock to lock if you just don't treat it like a wheel. The slower the car is moving the closer to center you turn it by.

 

[Wol747]

>>I'm talking about cost savings purely from a yoke style steering wheel (not talking about the stalks). I highly doubt taking that top part off really saves much, if any money. <<

Are we talking about the Leaf here? This is a AU$200,000 car, not a budget compact!

 

[stopcrazypp]

>>I'm talking about cost savings purely from a yoke style steering wheel (not talking about the stalks). I highly doubt taking that top part off really saves much, if any money. <<

Are we talking about the Leaf here? This is a AU$200,000 car, not a budget compact!

You cut off the whole comment chain. I'm saying the decision to have a yoke steering wheel is unlikely to be because of cost savings (aka the primary motivation for a yoke steering wheel is not cost savings). I'm trying to make clear the talk about the cost savings from the stalk removal is a different subject given there exists a stalkless wheel that has the same touch buttons.

My personal guess is that this "innovation" has nothing to do with improved visibility -- it is about reducing cost of manufacturing and assembling the car, plus putting more actions under the control of the car.

If the move has to do with costs, I don't see how the yoke reduces costs...

I'm sure there are decent cost savings associated with not having the stalks. Also, the stalks are a point of potential mechanical failure that is now replaced by a simple non moving button that is unlikely to fail for the life of the vehicle. I don't know about the S, but I know many 3's had malfunctioning stalks that had to be replaced to fix them. The entire steering column assembly needs to be replaced to do it, which includes both stalks + other components.

I'm talking about cost savings purely from a yoke style steering wheel (not talking about the stalks). I highly doubt taking that top part off really saves much, if any money.

 

[Wol747]

My point is that the question of a few dozen dollars in a car costing what this one does shouldn't be the subject of discussion when the perceived useability of the item is being questioned.
No matter.

 

[JPoldo]

I don't understand why they didn't make lock-to-lock 1 turn vs. 2.33. At 1/2 turn or 180 degrees, your arms cross, but hands do not leave wheel. I feel that's much safer. Surely a single turn makes the wheel much more sensitive. Haven't ice vehicle engineers solved that with variable mechanical steering where steering ratio is much greater off-center than at center.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I don't understand why they didn't make lock-to-lock 1 turn vs. 2.33. At 1/2 turn or 180 degrees, your arms cross, but hands do not leave wheel. I feel that's much safer. Surely a single turn makes the wheel much more sensitive. Haven't ice vehicle engineers solved that with variable mechanical steering where steering ratio is much greater off-center than at center.

The yoke steering is already variable ratio according to the manual. A solution where the wheel ratio changes that rapidly might be more dangerous.

People were suggesting progressive steering (meaning the ratio changes with the vehicle speed), which probably makes more sense, but Elon that's at least a few years away:
Tesla Plaid Yoke Stays, Musk Tweets About Progressive Steering