100KW battery upgrade now available $20k

[MP3Mike]

Here is a thought. When and if a battery needs replacement due to a warrantied issue, is Tesla obligated to replace with a new battery pack? Can't they replace with a refurbished pack? This could be an outlet for their swapped packs with some discount passed to new P90DL owners who want to trade up. This could also save shipping costs to and from high volume SCs. Btw, your analogy wasn't that bad, except I would not try to noodle around with my battery with a fork unless it was a plastic fork...

They used to replace with refurbished packs, but people complained that they were potentially getting older/abused packs when they had babied theirs. Since then it seems they only repair packs: they give you a loaner pack while your pack is sent off to be repaired. So your original pack comes back to you.

Since they don't currently offer other upgrades what are they going to do with these returned/used 90kWh packs? They could use them for loaner packs, but I don't know that they need many more of them... So they will likely get torn apart to use for parts to repair warranty issues on other packs. I think it would be best if they would offer upgrades using "refurb" packs, but I don't know that they would have enough packs available for the potential demand... (It is a chicken/egg problem.)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If people who have not taken delivery can order the 100 for 10K AND take delivery and drive it until the upgrade is available...

Is this the way they're planning to roll it out? I didn't understand that it was.

Yes, it does seem it is the way - at least for orders soon to be manufactured. I was told the same thing today when I upgraded to the P100DL: first the P90DL is delivered (in my case, sometime this year I guess) and then upgraded around early 2017 for the 10k to P100DL as long as this is specced before delivery.

Here's my experience, plus a separate one from the U.S. for Model S:

So, went with the P100DL upgrade (car not built yet). They said parts availability (for Europe?) would take perhaps until early 2017 so they confirmed they will upgrade it as soon as available and will honor the 10k price after delivery. Price is roughly the dollar equivalent plus local tax.

I'm cool with that.

It turns out my p90dl is about to go into the assembly line and it is set up with the new ventilated seats (whether I go to 100 or not). I am going to be delivered the 90 and can upgrade to the 100 for 11k. The expected 10k plus the 500 price increases on AP and premium interior package.

Oh and I get the 100 upgrade in 2017.

 

[Jurnimon]

They used to replace with refurbished packs, but people complained that they were potentially getting older/abused packs when they had babied theirs. Since then it seems they only repair packs: they give you a loaner pack while your pack is sent off to be repaired. So your original pack comes back to you.

Since they don't currently offer other upgrades what are they going to do with these returned/used 90kWh packs? They could use them for loaner packs, but I don't know that they need many more of them... So they will likely get torn apart to use for parts to repair warranty issues on other packs. I think it would be best if they would offer upgrades using "refurb" packs, but I don't know that they would have enough packs available for the potential demand... (It is a chicken/egg problem.)

They could refurbish them for the Model 3.

 

[mahulkp]

I think the difficulty of doing something with a "barely used" pack is one of the problems. Tesla likely can't redeploy it. They don't have a mechanism in place for reselling used packs, as far as I know. So barely used or not, it's going to have to go through some disassembly and recycling process, which is pretty wasteful in resources and time.

I don't know that the difference is $10k worthy, but I do understand that there's a big difference between an undelivered battery pack and a delivered battery pack. Maybe it's something like going to a restaurant. If your server places a dish in front of you and you noodle around in it with your fork, you can't send it back and expect them to give it to another diner.

Actually, that analogy is terrible. But I still think that the fact that someone has used the pack at all makes things very complicated. There is likely to be a day, once the Gigafactory is truly operational, that they can rapidly recycle packs for much cheaper, but we're not living in that time yet.

I have a X P90DL produced and now shipping to EU for delivery in September. The DS informed that the upgrade will retrofitted, probably in the beginning of 2017 for the cost of equal $ 10k if ordered before delivery of the car. So they will definitely get used 90Kwh batteries in return for $ 10k.

 

[AnalysiZ]

Is this the way they're planning to roll it out? I didn't understand that it was.

Yes. One ordered P90D without L and can upgrade for 20K* to 100 kWh INCL. L and one other that already ordered L, can get it for 10K*. They have not taken delivery yet, but can take delivery AND can drive until the pack comes available (see also @mahulkp )

I already took delivery (P90DL) and will have to pay 20K* because I've already driven for 4 weeks...
But... what is the difference between my pack and theirs?

(the * is because in Euro's the prices are little bit different, but the big picture stays the same)

My opinion is that they should make all retrofits for P90DL to P100DL 10K...

It has nothing to do with the refurbishing (as they will have the same problem with the ones not delivered yet)
So... the only reason I can think of is because people can refuse delivery / cancel and order a new one.
That does not make me happy.

 

[vandacca]

The difference is this: for a very short period of time, for those who haven't receive their vehicles yet, they will provide a "rain check" for the 100kwh pack. Yes, Tesla will have to swallow the extra cost, but they don't want to make this a habit, so if you've already received your vehicle, your out of luck (or SOL as we say here in North America).

Yes, I'm a wee bit disappointed, since I've had my vehicle for less than 2 months. However, this upgrade is likely using existing cells and not the newer 20700, so I'd prefer to wait for a higher density pack with less weight.

 

[ohmman]

Based on @mahulkp and @AnalysiZ's posts, I stand corrected. In those cases, I'm not sure why Tesla is allowing it. I wonder if that only applies overseas.

I still stand by my assertion that there's a big difference between an unused pack and a used pack. My feeling is that there should indeed be a greater charge for upgrading a 90 pack that has already been delivered vs. one that hasn't been delivered. I do not feel that they should allow owners to receive their vehicles with 90 packs, drive them while waiting for the upgrade, and still pay the same price as those who never had their vehicles (@mahulkp's situation). That's not to say I begrudge anyone for how it has turned out. I just feel that the way I'm laying it out is more fair.

 

[Vitold]

Based on @mahulkp and @AnalysiZ's posts, I stand corrected. In those cases, I'm not sure why Tesla is allowing it. I wonder if that only applies overseas.

I still stand by my assertion that there's a big difference between an unused pack and a used pack. My feeling is that there should indeed be a greater charge for upgrading a 90 pack that has already been delivered vs. one that hasn't been delivered. I do not feel that they should allow owners to receive their vehicles with 90 packs, drive them while waiting for the upgrade, and still pay the same price as those who never had their vehicles (@mahulkp's situation). That's not to say I begrudge anyone for how it has turned out. I just feel that the way I'm laying it out is more fair.

I think you're right.

"Packard Bell NEC has agreed to pay $3.5 million to the federal government to settle a "whistle-blower" lawsuit that accused the electronics firm of using recycled parts in personal computers that were sold as new."

Packard Bell Settles Suit Alleging Use of Recycled Parts

(I remember similar complaints about Dell and Gateway but Google found above first.)

Another example would be "Do Not Remove Under Penalty of Law" labels:

"During the late 1800s and early 1900s, government officials became concerned about the materials manufacturers were using to stuff mattresses. To cut costs, some manufacturers "recycled" old, used bedding materials and stuffed them into "new" mattresses. "

Why Do Mattresses Have 'Do Not Remove' Tags?

 

[RubberToe]

Still would like to know exactly what happens to the battery packs that Tesla receives back. Anyone know?

RT

 

[ohmman]

Still would like to know exactly what happens to the battery packs that Tesla receives back. Anyone know?

All I know is what they've said in the blog post, which is that it will be "recycled":

Tesla customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous, but not taken delivery, can upgrade to the 100 kWh pack for $10,000. Existing P90D Ludicrous owners can also upgrade to a 100 kWh pack, but for $20,000, as their used 90 kWh pack will have to be recycled.

 

[travwill]

Not quite sure I follow this thread fully as there actually is no 100D option yet right. It has to only be for existing or new customers that get the P100DL. There is not even an indication that a regular S/X 90D will ever have the option to easily upgrade at any cost to a 100D. They may likely come out with a 100D perhaps, but after they target the more expensive P100DLs first it seems for a while, or never is more likely.

 

[jason1466]

I'll offer 5K for a used 90 pack to bump my X75D to 284 miles range. Kidding. Sort of.

 

[AnalysiZ]

Based on @mahulkp and @AnalysiZ's posts, I stand corrected. In those cases, I'm not sure why Tesla is allowing it. I wonder if that only applies overseas.

I still stand by my assertion that there's a big difference between an unused pack and a used pack. My feeling is that there should indeed be a greater charge for upgrading a 90 pack that has already been delivered vs. one that hasn't been delivered. I do not feel that they should allow owners to receive their vehicles with 90 packs, drive them while waiting for the upgrade, and still pay the same price as those who never had their vehicles (@mahulkp's situation). That's not to say I begrudge anyone for how it has turned out. I just feel that the way I'm laying it out is more fair.

3 X's have been delivered in the Netherlands so far, and 1 (maybe 2 in Belgium)...
So... these will have to pay 20K instead of 10K that all the rest will have to pay.

The last 4 weeks I have been driving 3000 kms, at least 2000 of those were promotional for Tesla (Roadtrip / visiting Stores to support positive salesmen / testdrives as there are only a few available from Tesla)... It has been a lot of fun! I felt very privileged, and therefore "obliged" to give something back... Even rescheduled my agenda for Tesla promotional activities.

If I would have had delivery next week, it would have saved me 10K (I think 11100 Euro's).

Well... for 10K I would have considered it, especially because of the range for roadtrips.
For 20K no way. So, maybe it will save me the 10K I would be willing to spend in the end?

 

[Epymian]

As I said earlier, how cool if we could have the old pack put inside a power wall unit for ourselves when we upgrade. That is the ultimate recycling, especially for my 3 month old pack, and makes it more economically reasonable.

 

[MP3Mike]

They could refurbish them for the Model 3.

I don't think so, the Model 3 is going to use a new cell format as well as pack size/configuration. So I'm not sure any part of a Model S pack would be used to build a Model 3 pack.

 

[MP3Mike]

Yes, it does seem it is the way - at least for orders soon to be manufactured. I was told the same thing today when I upgraded to the P100DL: first the P90DL is delivered (in my case, sometime this year I guess) and then upgraded around early 2017 for the 10k to P100DL as long as this is specced before delivery.

I'm sure they are doing that because they don't want to hold up the deliveries of all of the cars that people want to get upgraded to a P100DL until the new batteries are actually available in QTY. (Especially if they are already in the process of being shipped somewhere.)

But if the estimates on the site are accurate someone who orders a brand new P100DL could get it as early as next month.

So use their limited availability of the 100kWh packs, ~200 week, for new orders to push demand/delervies up, and then once demand for that falls they will use the 100kWh for upgrades. Once upgrades are mostly complete they will probably make the 100 kWh packs available for 100Ds. (I figure the timeline will be squishy depending on actual demand.)

 

[PianoProdigy]

I'll probably go for it even at $20k assuming I can get all the upgraded autopilot tech.

 

[Jurnimon]

I don't think so, the Model 3 is going to use a new cell format as well as pack size/configuration. So I'm not sure any part of a Model S pack would be used to build a Model 3 pack.

That is interesting then. Can they reclaim any of the use materials to use for net new batteries?

 

[systemcrashed]

What is the price of a 90D battery if you had to buy one?

Also noticed the 0-60 time for the P90D now shows 3.7 it went down a tenth of a second. I wonder if this was a software tweak. Ludicrous is not offered as an option on a new P90D either.

 

[travwill]

The P90D seems a little duplicative now. I would think they would just offer the (60D-75D)/90D/100DL now so they just have 3 models technically.