19" and 21" Tire Wear (informal) Survey

[lolachampcar]

SCW,
Took delivery of a P85 early Feb 2013 then sold it so I could get the P85+ (and the Red I was not originally willing to wait for). That accounts for two cars. We just took delivery of my wife's S85 which makes number 3.

The two big differences I noticed between 4288 and the newer cars are (1) the passenger doors are now aligned and close better (were about an 1/8" low on the early cars) and the frunk lid is thicker and thus holding its shape better. Overall seam gaps are better as well.

WRT tire wear, I've got my rear camber set to around -1.2 degrees and expect 15K-20K miles from my 21" Pilots. There is no question you should get higher mileage from the 19s and with the kind of driving YBD is doing it makes perfect sense to use them. I'm more like 10K a year and I too love the look of the 21s. I've also never damaged a rim on the street.

 

[texex91]

WRT tire wear, I've got my rear camber set to around -1.2 degrees and expect 15K-20K miles from my 21" Pilots. .

That's great info. Who set that for you?? Tesla SC??

Any other settings for the 21" that we should be aware of (for Pilots that is).

Good info.

 

[lolachampcar]

sorry texex91, Tesla did not give us adjustable camber. I made 0.210" longer upper suspension links to remove about a degree of negative camber. Tesla was nice enough to leave sufficient adjustment in the toe arms to make the camber change and still get toe in back close to zero. I did have to loosen the sub-frame on my + as it was "cocked sideways" a bit. I could get toe set on one side after doing the links but ran out of adjustment on the other. Simply loosening the rear sub-frame bolts allowed the unit to snap back straight. We tightened up the sub-frame attaching bolts and toe was within adjustment range on both sides.

The arms-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/New Upper Arms/new_upper_rear_model_s_suspensio.htm

Overall discussion of MS and rear alignment-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/tesla_model_s.htm

 

[texex91]

sorry texex91, Tesla did not give us adjustable camber. I made 0.210" longer upper suspension links to remove about a degree of negative camber. Tesla was nice enough to leave sufficient adjustment in the toe arms to make the camber change and still get toe in back close to zero. I did have to loosen the sub-frame on my + as it was "cocked sideways" a bit. I could get toe set on one side after doing the links but ran out of adjustment on the other. Simply loosening the rear sub-frame bolts allowed the unit to snap back straight. We tightened up the sub-frame attaching bolts and toe was not within adjustment range on both sides.

The arms-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/New Upper Arms/new_upper_rear_model_s_suspensio.htm

Overall discussion of MS and rear alignment-
http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/Tesla/tesla_model_s.htm

Very interesting--thanks!

 

[brianman]

Has anyone who had to get tires replaced at 5,000 miles or so had their alignment checked and had better results with the second set?

My first 21s were rotated around 6200, and replaced at 8500. My second 21s were rotated around 6000, and -- at suggestion of Tesla techs -- had an alignment at the same time. I'm currently at 15,600, but that includes around 500 miles on the 19s. So...say 15100-8500...6600 on the current 21s.

 

[dsm363]

I am at 9,800 miles and have about 3.8mm on inside and ~4.5mm on outside of all the tires. Could probably get another 1-2k miles but have annual service coming up so will go ahead and replace them then.

 

[Hybris]

This tyre wear is my number one concern for buying a Tesla... I did drive 80000 km before changing the factory continentals on my X5 (E70). Heavy car and diesl with loadsmof torque. My 1M i drove 20000 km when selling it. The tires did still look almost as new...

What is up with Tesla? Sure hard driving burns rubber but this seems to be an issue hitting everyone. Anyone talked with Tesla? Fixes? Bit concerned when a new car company do have this kind of issue. My only concern before hitting the buy button...

 

[lolachampcar]

Hybris,

Active air cars are lower which increases negative camber. 21" tires have stiffer side walls and wider width than the 19" configuration so they are less compliant. These to fundamental constraints combine with any alignment issue to drive high wear.

If you drive a lot, I suggest you would be very happy with a standard (coil spring) car and 19s. The tire wear should be acceptable and the car has a nice ride/feel to it (my opinion only from driving my wife's and my car back to back on a regular basis).

If you want detailed information see http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13825-Negative-Camber-in-the-Rear-and-Expensive-Tires

 

[jerry33]

What is up with Tesla? Sure hard driving burns rubber but this seems to be an issue hitting everyone. Anyone talked with Tesla? Fixes? Bit concerned when a new car company do have this kind of issue. My only concern before hitting the buy button...

Mine look almost new at about 10,000 miles (16,000 km). The problem is likely the toe setting in the rear. Getting toe correct appears to be the first thing that you should do.

 

[lolachampcar]

and there is a range for toe settings. I was forced to use the maximum toe in for a few days (still within Tesla specification) and I noticed my range dropped and the car was much more stable (lacked hunting) while driving down the interstate. I fixed the issue preventing toe adjustment and returned toe to the minimum toe in specification. My range returned as did the nervous behavior on the highway. I would suggest using the minimum possible toe in for the rear as this will give you the best tire life.

As important as toe is, you can dramatically affect your wear simply by choosing coil spring instead of active air suspension and 19" tires/wheels.

 

[wycolo]

When you enter this thread please state: "I am VIN ____ and I'm a 21 inch a-holic".

We offer a 21 step program of support and understanding for our mutual problem. Admitting to this problem is the first order of business, otherwise progress will be impossible."
--

 

[JMO]

Life span of a Model S 21" tire

Does anyone know what the life span of a 21" Model S tire should be if driven in a normal fashion?

My Model S needed all 4 tires replaced with only 12,000 miles. I drive conservatively and was expecting at least 20,000 miles.

 

[dsm363]

There are a few threads on this already in the Model S section so will merge this there but 12,000 miles is not bad.

 

[TylerCA]

Does anyone know what the life span of a 21" Model S tire should be if driven in a normal fashion?

My Model S needed all 4 tires replaced with only 12,000 miles. I drive conservatively and was expecting at least 20,000 miles.

Sounds about right for a rear wheel drive car.

 

[dsm363]

Did you rotate the tires too during those 12,000 miles?

 

[fastcars]

Michelin website says 45k warranty, and they last close that but rotation is the key. Regardless replacing tires per 12k is pretty counter productive for having EV but that is totally different topic of discussion (better to avoid the nerves of model s buyer)

 

[yobigd20]

those are 21-inch low profile Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 summer performance tires. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...13&autoModel=Model S Performance&autoModClar=

do not expect them to last more than 10k. many users on these forums have reported them needing replacement between 5-7k. from user reviews on tirerack, those tires seem to need replacement every 7-13k that aligns with pretty much all the reports I've read on TMC.

So to answer your question directly, these tires need replacement pretty much every 12k. Your experience is spot-on and they lasted as-expected. This is normal.

if you are not comfortable shelling out $$$$ every 12k miles for new low profile high performance summer-only tires, then don't drive on low profile high performance summer-only tires.

just look at the treadwear ratings on those tires - 220. absurdly low (hence why they are high performance summer tires).

switch to some decent 19s. I can't wait to replace my stock goodyears with these http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...13&autoModel=Model S Performance&autoModClar= which are also now "Tesla approved" OEM tires. low rolling resitance and UTQG 500 treadwear rating. again - 500 treadwear rating. Brand new 21" tires would be starting out at pretty much 1/3rd of the treadwear of these Michelins 19s. Honestly I don't get why anyone would shell out $$$$ for those 21s unless you are racing all the time and can afford it.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

Does Tesla officially "allow" you to put any other tires on a Model S? I have the OEM Goodyears on 19" wheels, and I don't know if I like those Michelin Primacy tires.

I have read and heard some good things about these new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...YR9PSAS3&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

 

[texex91]

Honestly I don't get why anyone would shell out $$$$ for those 21s unless you are racing all the time and can afford it.

Because they look awesome--simple.

 

[GlennAlanBerry]

The 21" tires do look nice, but:

They are more expensive to buy when you first buy the car
They wear out more quickly
They ride more roughly
They hurt range
They add unsprung weight
They are more susceptible to pothole damage
They are more susceptible to curb damage
The tires are more expensive to replace
The wheels are more expensive to replace

I wonder how the respective handling would be using that same exact tires in both sizes?