2013 P85 vibration from suspension

[AmpedRealtor]

Seems my car has developed some unusual vibrations that I can feel in both the steering wheel and in the seat. The vibrations occur while aggressively accelerating between 50 and 70 MPH, and while cruising at 85 MPH. I started noticing the issue with my previous tires and it has persisted to my completely new set of tires and across at least one annual alignment. I mentioned the problem to service about a year ago, they said they could not reproduce the issue. It was pretty subtle back then. Now it has worsened to the point where my passengers are commenting on the vibration while cruising at 85 MPH.

The feeling in the steering wheel is very subtle and vibrates at a rather high frequency, like a phone set to vibrate. I have a pre-AP car so no lane departure warning that could be the cause. Since it existed on a previous set of tires, I'll presume that it is not a balancing problem. When I had the newest set of tires put on about 15,000 miles ago, they were road force balanced to perfection. Still there was an issue, but I ignored it, thinking it was more or less in my head.

I'm taking her into service tomorrow, but was wondering if anyone might have some suggestions to help me point service in the right direction? Cracked motor mount? Cracked rim(s)? Half shafts? Axles? Bearings? Suspension components? Drive unit?

Tires were rotated two months ago at the same time an alignment was performed.

The fact that it happens in specific speed ranges points to a potential resonance issue, but again, it existed on a previous set of tires and I doubt it's balancing or the tire being out of round. It would be an incredible coincidence if it were either of those issues that happened to replicate itself on a new set of tires.

I'm currently at 68,000 miles and covered by the ESA. Thanks in advance for any guidance. I want to help service as much as I can in diagnosing the problem. I'll make sure I take a service technician with me on a drive so he/she understands and feels exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Walpan]

see my previous posts under this sub heading

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Thanks @Walpan, your issue seems to have to do with bouncing and some kind of push/pull effect. My issue is a different one, a very high frequency vibration throughout the vehicle. My car is RWD and the issue did not exist prior to about a year ago. In fact, now that I think about it, I had my last drive unit replaced about 12-18 months ago. Coincidence?

 

[artsci]

Thanks @Walpan, your issue seems to have to do with bouncing and some kind of push/pull effect. My issue is a different one, a very high frequency vibration throughout the vehicle. My car is RWD and the issue did not exist prior to about a year ago. In fact, now that I think about it, I had my last drive unit replaced about 12-18 months ago. Coincidence?

I have a similar vibration, but in my case it starts around 43mph and the frequency increases with speed. Now and then it goes away at speed, largely when I decelerate.

I think in my case it may be aerodynamic, as it began to appear when I did the facelift bumper upgrade, or maybe that's just a coincidence. And yes, I have put hard foam under the flexible flap near the front grille, so it can't be that.

Ideas and suggestions are welcome. I'll have my SC address it in a few weeks.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I have a similar vibration, but in my case it starts around 43mph and the frequency increases with speed. Now and then it goes away at speed, largely when I decelerate.

I think in my case it may be aerodynamic, as it began to appear when I did the facelift bumper upgrade, or maybe that's just a coincidence. And yes, I have put hard foam under the flexible flap near the front grille, so it can't be that.

Ideas and suggestions are welcome. I'll have my SC address it in a few weeks.

Sounds very similar to what I'm experiencing. When accelerating above 50 MPH, I can feel the vibration wash over the car and then disappear as I accelerate to about 65-70 MPH. Then when I hit 85 MPH it comes back, at a reduced frequency, almost like I'm going over slightly rough pavement.

I hope this is not difficult to diagnose. It's not fun driving my car anymore.

OH and my tires are all inflated to the 45 PSI specified in the door jam. Michelin Primacies.

 

[artsci]

Sounds very similar to what I'm experiencing. When accelerating above 50 MPH, I can feel the vibration wash over the car and then disappear as I accelerate to about 65-70 MPH. Then when I hit 85 MPH it comes back, at a reduced frequency, almost like I'm going over slightly rough pavement.

I hope this is not difficult to diagnose. It's not fun driving my car anymore.

OH and my tires are all inflated to the 45 PSI specified in the door jam. Michelin Primacies.

It’s a long story, but when I took my car to the Owings Mills service center last week, the tech reviewed what I needed done (post rear-end accident). I told him about the vibration and he agreed that it was probably aerodynamic. But as the body shop did not seal the new tail lamps for water incursion (don’t ask me why) and did not manage to fix the cinching actuator problem it has to go back to them for that and a few other things before the service center can to their work.

The car will go back to the service center late next week and hopefully they’ll find a solution to the vibration problem. I’ll post here whatever solution they come up with.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

worn bushings maybe? I had a DU replacement a while ago and was noticing a bit of jigglyness over uneven bumps while turning slightly, but not the same speed related vibrations. The replaced rear end fixed whatever I was feeling + the clicking that I was really concerned about (axle splines?)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

worn bushings maybe? I had a DU replacement a while ago and was noticing a bit of jigglyness over uneven bumps while turning slightly, but not the same speed related vibrations. The replaced rear end fixed whatever I was feeling + the clicking that I was really concerned about (axle splines?)

I sure hope my local Tesla Service is adept at diagnosing potential suspension issues.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

...UPDATE...

Tesla fixed two issues that were causing two different vibrations. The vibration above 80+ MPH was apparently three tires being out of balance. Some of the wheel weights apparently fell off. They did a road force balance on all the tires that they say should address the issue. I have to take it on the road to check, since they won't drive the car above the posted speed limit.

Second issue - and slightly alarming to a neophyte like me - was the vibration under heavy acceleration at around 65 MPH. They replaced my rear axle. My P85 is only at 68,000 miles. I imagine such a fix would be quite expensive without the ESA.

Why would a rear axle need to be replaced after only 68,000 miles?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

...UPDATE 2...

Turns out it wasn't the axle, as the problem was still there. They replaced the DU, problem still there. They are going to try the air struts next. Thank goodness for the ESA!

 

[cab]

Could be a bent rim. You can often still balance a slightly bent rim, but it can still reflect as vinration at higher speeds. They can mount the wheel and look for runout (i.e. slight egg shape).

 

[Az_Rael]

What about your wheel bearings? I had that manifest once as a vibration/noise at particular speeds on a prior car.

 

[tomas]

Could be a bent rim. You can often still balance a slightly bent rim, but it can still reflect as vinration at higher speeds. They can mount the wheel and look for runout (i.e. slight egg shape).

This. Lots of shops balance as well as they can. Few will tell you if your wheel is out of round. Good idea to check. I have this but not worth new wheels at this point.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

What about your wheel bearings? I had that manifest once as a vibration/noise at particular speeds on a prior car.

They ruled out a wheel bearing issue because the vibration is present when driving straight as well as while turning to the left and right. I was told that bearing problems typically only manifest themselves when a lateral load is applied. I will ask.

This. Lots of shops balance as well as they can. Few will tell you if your wheel is out of round. Good idea to check. I have this but not worth new wheels at this point.

Tesla road force balanced all four tires. They said if there was a bent rim it would have been revealed during the road force balancing. The re-balancing seems to have addressed the vibration at 80+ MPH, but the one at 65 MPH under heavy acceleration is still present.

They are leaning towards the air struts. According to the technician, air shocks behave differently than gas-filled shocks when they start wearing out. When gas shocks approach end of life, the car typically bounces. When air shocks approach end of life, vibration can result.

They also threw new wheels/tires on the car to rule out tires and rims.

One good thing about Tesla, at least while under warranty, they have already thrown some expensive parts at the problem without regard to cost. Half shafts (axle) and drive unit so far. Neither of those are inexpensive, I believe. They will try the air shocks next, my fingers are crossed. I feel we may need to call in Columbo to figure this one out.

Service is trying really hard and going above and beyond to diagnose the issue.

 

[artsci]

My mystery continues. On the way to the airport today, the vibration disappeared at speeds over 80mph. It was also inconsistent — at some speeds over 43mph (when the vibration usually starts) it didn’t appear. Makes me think all the more that’s aero induced.

Any thoughts from others?

 

[Joelc]

Interesting. I've noticed this vibration as well on my 2013 P85. Haven't taken mine in for service yet, but plan to mention the vibration at next scheduled service.

/following

 

[cab]

They ruled out a wheel bearing issue because the vibration is present when driving straight as well as while turning to the left and right. I was told that bearing problems typically only manifest themselves when a lateral load is applied. I will ask.



Tesla road force balanced all four tires. They said if there was a bent rim it would have been revealed during the road force balancing. The re-balancing seems to have addressed the vibration at 80+ MPH, but the one at 65 MPH under heavy acceleration is still present.

They are leaning towards the air struts. According to the technician, air shocks behave differently than gas-filled shocks when they start wearing out. When gas shocks approach end of life, the car typically bounces. When air shocks approach end of life, vibration can result.

They also threw new wheels/tires on the car to rule out tires and rims.

One good thing about Tesla, at least while under warranty, they have already thrown some expensive parts at the problem without regard to cost. Half shafts (axle) and drive unit so far. Neither of those are inexpensive, I believe. They will try the air shocks next, my fingers are crossed. I feel we may need to call in Columbo to figure this one out.

Service is trying really hard and going above and beyond to diagnose the issue.

Hmmm, not so sure about the item I bolded above. More specifically, the shocks are not air shocks. The "springs" are air springs (basically a big rubber bladder full of air), but the shocks (actually the damper inside the strut body) isn't an "air" shock at all - it is just like 99% of all other shocks on the road (an oil and pressurized gas combo). Heck, they aren't even "fancy" by shock standards these days (i.e. no electronically controlled valving or magnetorheological wizardry). For the record, "air shocks" do exist (refer to a buddy's jacked up 67 El Camino), but that's tnot what we have here. In general, it seems to be very RARE that a shock/strut damper causes a vibration, but since there job is to control the up/down oscillation it is certainly possible. They may see something else like a worn bushing when they get in there.

Worst case...you get new struts out of the deal!

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Hmmm, not so sure about the item I bolded above. More specifically, the shocks are not air shocks. The "springs" are air springs (basically a big rubber bladder full of air), but the shocks (actually the damper inside the strut body) isn't an "air" shock at all - it is just like 99% of all other shocks on the road (an oil and pressurized gas combo). Heck, they aren't even "fancy" by shock standards these days (i.e. no electronically controlled valving or magnetorheological wizardry). For the record, "air shocks" do exist (refer to a buddy's jacked up 67 El Camino), but that's tnot what we have here. In general, it seems to be very RARE that a shock/strut damper causes a vibration, but since there job is to control the up/down oscillation it is certainly possible. They may see something else like a worn bushing when they get in there.

Worst case...you get new struts out of the deal!

Well, I've already gotten a new DU and new rear half shafts so why not air struts? lol... I mentioned control arms, bushings, ball joints, toe links, and every other suspension lingo I could and they have ruled all of those items out. We even thought it might be the air suspension automatically lowering at 65 MPH, which is where the vibration starts. We turned that off and kept it in standard ride height, still felt the issue.

What's strange is that replacing the DU and half shafts did make the issue slightly better, as it seems even more random than before. I drove over a smooth, repaved portion of the freeway and could only get the issue to show itself half the times that I tried. It is the seeming randomness of the problem that is making the problem a devil to diagnose.

My fear is that the air struts won't fix the issue, then what? @lolachampcar I don't suppose you might have any thoughts on what, if anything, in the suspension system could be causing this issue?

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

My mystery continues. On the way to the airport today, the vibration disappeared at speeds over 80mph. It was also inconsistent — at some speeds over 43mph (when the vibration usually starts) it didn’t appear. Makes me think all the more that’s aero induced.

Any thoughts from others?

...a '12 with a face lift - maybe you have and aerodynamically incompatible front end

 

[scottm]

It is the seeming randomness of the problem that is making the problem a devil to diagnose.

Hmm..

Passengers feeling noticing this in front of the car. ..

Just wondering if it's not some accessory under the frunk bin... like A/C compressor or brake vacuum pump.. something that cuts in and out. If you have a vac leak that pump will come on at random times and will work hard (long) to make more vac as she's leaking... hard time catching up. If the vac pump is rubbing against something or its bearings are starting to get upset... vibration..

When "all is quiet" on the freeway... do some long light lingering braking pedal presses (to drain the reservoir) and see if the noise starts up!

I found the A/C compressor hoses rubbing on the bottom of my frunk bin, and I'm sure the contact and vibration was amplifying the sound of A/C compressor when it was working hard. Started to sound like a monster under there on the hottest of days. (Will need to wait until next summer to see if its gone.)