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2015 Outlook Tesla Motors factory in Fremont, California.

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2014 is coming to an end (but there are still 52 days left), and so far it has been a great year for Tesla Motors, actually. But which Tesla Motors related thoughts and expectations do we have for 2015? Would you like to share your thoughts and expectations?

There are lots of separate/different topics which can discussed here in this thread (as long as it's related to Tesla Motors factory in Fremont, California, in 2015).

Personally, I think that 2015 is going to be the year of the Tesla Model X. All the preparations for making the Tesla Model X "a diamond without a flaw" and getting all the details right. All the preparations for the start of the production of the Tesla Model X (supply chain, body center, etc.).

This was mentioned in the 2014 Q3 Earnings Report Shareholder Letter:
"In contrast to Q3, actions to further increase capacity have been designed to be less disruptive, thus enabling us to increase output at a steadier and more predictable pace. For example, our Model X body center will initially be independent from our Model S body center, allowing us to start building Model X bodies without impacting Model S production."

So, the factory shutdown as in July 2014 is not going to happen in 2015, and that's very good for the continuation of the steady pace of production of the Tesla Model S cars in 2015.

This was also mentioned in the 2014 Q3 Earnings Report Shareholder Letter:
"we expect our annual production will increase by over 50% in 2014, again in 2015 and probably for several years to follow."

During the Conference Call Elon Musk confirmed that this 50% increase was purely related to the production of the Tesla Model S, meaning that the production numbers of the Tesla Model X cars will be additional to the mentioned 50% increase.

My prediction for 2015:
60.000 Tesla Model S deliveries
20.000 Tesla Model X deliveries

Some people may possibly think that that's a bit too optimistic.

Would you like to share your thoughts and/or expectations and/or predictions?

Tesla Motors Forum member holidayday has posted this message:

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2015 Tesla production: 54,000

Predictions: Model S

2015 Q1: 11,500
2015 Q2: 13,000
2015 Q3: 13,500
2015 Q4: 14,000

2015 Model S: 52,000

Predictions: Model X

2015 Q1: 0
2015 Q2: 0
2015 Q3: 500
2015 Q4: 1500

2015 Model X: 2000

If we go by the Q3 conference call, the aim is 50% more in 2015 than 2014. This would make it 33,000 x 1.5 = 49,500 for current estimate.

As Tesla simplifies its production scheme (fewer options), then batches of similar vehicles can be larger. This reduces adjustment time for different options that need to be installed. (Different roof? include rear seats? Tech Option? etc)

I'm following Tesla's lead and low-balling estimates because Tesla is experiencing expected production issues. It takes time to retool things. It takes time to train a second or third shift. It takes time to build in perfection.

2015 is basically a test year to improve production efficiencies in preparation for the Model 3 volumes.

Estimate 60,000 run rate for Model S in 2016 with growth in Model X to be about 20,000.

Future educated guesses:

2015 with 52,000 Model S, 2000 Model X.
2016 with 60,000 Model S, 20,000 Model X.
2017 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 5000 Model 3.
2018 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 60,000 Model 3.
2019 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 150,000 Model 3.
2020 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 400,000 Model 3.
2021 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, 600,000 Model 3, and 1000 Model (?)
growth of (?) and other models in years to follow with these future Wild Ass Guesses (WAGs) (notice about 50% per year):
2022 - 1.1 million
2023 - 1.6 million
2024 - 2.4 million
2025 - 3.6 million

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Tesla Motors Forum member holidayday has posted this message:

-----------------------------------------------------------
2015 Tesla production: 54,000

Predictions: Model S

2015 Q1: 11,500
2015 Q2: 13,000
2015 Q3: 13,500
2015 Q4: 14,000

2015 Model S: 52,000

Predictions: Model X

2015 Q1: 0
2015 Q2: 0
2015 Q3: 500
2015 Q4: 1500

2015 Model X: 2000

If we go by the Q3 conference call, the aim is 50% more in 2015 than 2014. This would make it 33,000 x 1.5 = 49,500 for current estimate.

As Tesla simplifies its production scheme (fewer options), then batches of similar vehicles can be larger. This reduces adjustment time for different options that need to be installed. (Different roof? include rear seats? Tech Option? etc)

I'm following Tesla's lead and low-balling estimates because Tesla is experiencing expected production issues. It takes time to retool things. It takes time to train a second or third shift. It takes time to build in perfection.

2015 is basically a test year to improve production efficiencies in preparation for the Model 3 volumes.

Estimate 60,000 run rate for Model S in 2016 with growth in Model X to be about 20,000.

Future educated guesses:

2015 with 52,000 Model S, 2000 Model X.
2016 with 60,000 Model S, 20,000 Model X.
2017 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 5000 Model 3.
2018 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 60,000 Model 3.
2019 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 150,000 Model 3.
2020 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, and 400,000 Model 3.
2021 with 60,000 Model S, 60,000 Model X, 600,000 Model 3, and 1000 Model (?)
growth of (?) and other models in years to follow with these future Wild Ass Guesses (WAGs) (notice about 50% per year):
2022 - 1.1 million
2023 - 1.6 million
2024 - 2.4 million
2025 - 3.6 million

-----------------------------------------------------------

My reply is as follows

Delivery numbers in the coming 6 years:

2015
Tesla Model S: 60.000
Tesla Model X: 20.000

2016
Tesla Model S: 90.000
Tesla Model X: 90.000

2017
Tesla Model S: 150.000
Tesla Model X: 150.000
Tesla Model 3: 100.000

2018
Tesla Model S: 200.000
Tesla Model X: 200.000
Tesla Model 3: 300.000

2019
Tesla Model S: 250.000
Tesla Model X: 250.000
Tesla Model 3: 500.000

2020
Tesla Model S: 300.000
Tesla Model X: 300.000
Tesla Model 3: 900.000
Tesla Model ?: .......
 
My reply is as follows

Delivery numbers in the coming 6 years:

2015
Tesla Model S: 60.000
Tesla Model X: 20.000

2016
Tesla Model S: 90.000
Tesla Model X: 90.000

2017
Tesla Model S: 150.000
Tesla Model X: 150.000
Tesla Model 3: 100.000

2018
Tesla Model S: 200.000
Tesla Model X: 200.000
Tesla Model 3: 300.000

2019
Tesla Model S: 250.000
Tesla Model X: 250.000
Tesla Model 3: 500.000

2020
Tesla Model S: 300.000
Tesla Model X: 300.000
Tesla Model 3: 900.000
Tesla Model ?: .......

Not to burst your bubble but I don't see how they get to 1 million plus cars by 2019 and I also don't see how demand for the S/X platform could go to 600k. That is likely more than the entire large luxury sedan market combined.
 
Not to burst your bubble but I don't see how they get to 1 million plus cars by 2019 and I also don't see how demand for the S/X platform could go to 600k. That is likely more than the entire large luxury sedan market combined.

Yes, as,I think this is way too optimistic as well...perhaps in double the time we will get there, but I don't see S and X together going above 200k anytime in the next 5-7 years, perhaps in 10 years, but certainly not before 2020
 
Not to burst your bubble but I don't see how they get to 1 million plus cars by 2019 and I also don't see how demand for the S/X platform could go to 600k. That is likely more than the entire large luxury sedan market combined.

If the demand is there, production will follow right behind it. Some things will move faster in the next few years than people currently think they will. Disruptive things do disrupt. Remember, they are currently not showing all their cards. And one of those cards is a second Gigafactory.

Just keep an eye on the total amount of deposits which is mentioned in each Quarterly Shareholder Letter.

The Tesla factory in Fremont, California is only for the Tesla Model S and the Tesla Model X. And there will be three other Tesla factories (US, China, Europe) for the Tesla Model 3. Investments in the expansion of their production capacity will be imminent.
 
If the demand is there, production will follow right behind it. Some things will move faster in the next few years than people currently think they will. Disruptive things do disrupt. Remember, they are currently not showing all their cards. And one of those cards is a second Gigafactory.

Just keep an eye on the total amount of deposits which is mentioned in each Quarterly Shareholder Letter.

The Tesla factory in Fremont, California is only for the Tesla Model S and the Tesla Model X. And there will be three other Tesla factories (US, China, Europe) for the Tesla Model 3. Investments in the expansion of their production capacity will be imminent.

I appreciate the bullish sentiment, but I caution not to get too excited about this or you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. I don't know what you have been listening to but Elon reiterated on this last call that they have no plans for the next few years (certainly nothing up through the release of the Model 3) to do a capital raise and that would certainly be required at this point if they wanted to move forward with a second factory of any kind. Fremont is nowhere close to full, by volume output they are currently at around 10% capacity. There is a ton of growth to be had from within what they already have purchased.

And there is only so much market for a 100k ASP car. Even people like me who stretched their budgets to make a 1k a month car payment there are only so many of us. I know plenty of people who are arguably more "well off" than I am, and they would NEVER buy a car over 50k (new or otherwise). Mostly because they have other financial obligations that I don't have... like children... But the point is, there is only so much market here. Now don't think I am saying that this market is small like the bears do, but it is a little much to think that it is on the order of 600k a year. I will personally be very happy to see them get to a combined 200k a year and I think that is very optimistic. Unless they diversify into other types of high end cars. But on just two models you won't find enough market for much more than that. Maybe I am wrong and I will not be sad at all to be wrong here.

I don't see another car factory being started until MAYBE 2016... but most likely 2017. And the gigafactory will have more than enough capacity to exceed 500k a year for cars if they so choose so that isn't really an issue for me either.
 
Due to SUV's being more popular than sedans ......

Delivery numbers in the coming 6 years:

2015
Tesla Model S: 60.000
Tesla Model X: 20.000

2016
Tesla Model S: 90.000
Tesla Model X: 90.000

2017
Tesla Model S: 140.000
Tesla Model X: 180.000
Tesla Model 3: 100.000

2018
Tesla Model S: 180.000
Tesla Model X: 240.000
Tesla Model 3: 300.000

2019
Tesla Model S: 220.000
Tesla Model X: 300.000
Tesla Model 3: 500.000

2020
Tesla Model S: 260.000
Tesla Model X: 360.000
Tesla Model 3: 900.000
Tesla Model ?: .......
 
Due to SUV's being more popular than sedans ......

Delivery numbers in the coming 6 years:

2015
Tesla Model S: 60.000
Tesla Model X: 20.000

2016
Tesla Model S: 90.000
Tesla Model X: 90.000

2017
Tesla Model S: 140.000
Tesla Model X: 180.000
Tesla Model 3: 100.000

2018
Tesla Model S: 180.000
Tesla Model X: 240.000
Tesla Model 3: 300.000

2019
Tesla Model S: 220.000
Tesla Model X: 300.000
Tesla Model 3: 500.000

2020
Tesla Model S: 260.000
Tesla Model X: 360.000
Tesla Model 3: 900.000
Tesla Model ?: .......

Hey 'benz - do you have a data source for luxury sedan and suv/crossover sales units? Ideally broken up by model and geography, but I'll take anything I can get. Your 2020 scenario shows nearly 600k luxury vehicles being sold by Tesla - how does that compare to worldwide sales in the luxury segment today or projected in 2020?

(note that I ask not in doubt - it's actually the opposite; my hypothesis is that in the next few years, we will see competing luxury brands scale back and/or stop making cars due to lack of demand that's being swept up by Tesla)
 
You guys have got to be kidding! Sorry I love the company but the only reason we are spitting out the idea that Tesla could make more than 250,000 cars/year in 2020 is because there is a powerpoint slide that leaked which says they could potentially make 700,000 cars in 2020. But you all are pointing to over a million!!! let's be realistic - I toured the Tesla Factory with an engineering department head and Fremont itself can only handle 200 - 300k cars a year production. Thus:

Where do the other factories come from?
Where does the talent come from?
How are they going to multiply the service centers by a factor of 20 in 6 years! Probably more than 20x as the fleet ages.

This is 10s to 100s of billions of dollars I imagine.


I actually have to visit this site less frequently because the logic is gone, and people are hoping for stock price action such as what we saw last year, and to a lesser degree this year. Don't make a case simply to support the price you want the stock to be.

- - - Updated - - -

If the demand is there, production will follow right behind it. Some things will move faster in the next few years than people currently think they will. Disruptive things do disrupt. Remember, they are currently not showing all their cards. And one of those cards is a second Gigafactory.


Sources? Would really love to know what you know.
 
How are they going to multiply the service centers by a factor of 20 in 6 years!

How are they going to build and sell more than a few thousand luxury sedans? How are they going to build a SuperCharger network all around the world? How are they going to build a Gigafactory? How are they going to build the Model 3?

All these questions and many more have been asked in just the last 2 years or less. And yet...
 
You picked my most damning question of them all, but you sidestepped it. Where does the money come from????

a. Massive capital raise.
b. Partnership.
c. The billions in profits which will be accumulated in the normal scope of business over 10 - 15 years.

All that assuming the economy stays its present course.

I believe that Tesla will corner the market, GM will be bankrupt in 15 years and either BMW or Merc will bankrupt too. But double your timeline at least, and plan your investments accordingly.
 
You picked my most damning question of them all, but you sidestepped it. Where does the money come from????

Where will Tesla get the money to build the Gigafactory? - was also a 'damning question' not that long ago. Just because you (we) can't figure out where or how doesn't mean Tesla isn't already all over that puppy. I've come to realize that Team Tesla is several steps ahead.
 
If Tesla can sell 1.4 million cars in 2020, thats great. My shares will be enough to buy my fully loaded Model X and far more than that. But if Straubel showed a power point slide that claimed 500,000 cars, why would you almost triple that? Do you all think they are sandbagging by that multiple? Do you know something they dont?

Slide 14 http://www.jointventure.org/images/stories/pdf/jb.straubel_svess2014.pdf
 
If the demand is there, production will follow right behind it. Some things will move faster in the next few years than people currently think they will. Disruptive things do disrupt. Remember, they are currently not showing all their cards. And one of those cards is a second Gigafactory.

Just keep an eye on the total amount of deposits which is mentioned in each Quarterly Shareholder Letter.

The Tesla factory in Fremont, California is only for the Tesla Model S and the Tesla Model X. And there will be three other Tesla factories (US, China, Europe) for the Tesla Model 3. Investments in the expansion of their production capacity will be imminent.

"Elon Musk has mentioned that he expects Tesla Motors to have a battery production plant in Germany in five to six years."

I knew it.

Link: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/un...-batteriefabrik-in-deutschland-a-1004441.html
 
"Elon Musk has mentioned that he expects Tesla Motors to have a battery production plant in Germany in five to six years."

I knew it.

Link: http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/un...-batteriefabrik-in-deutschland-a-1004441.html

Not sure whether he means to have a finished factory in 2020 or to start working on one at that point. Even if it's done in 2020 that doesn't support your sales expectation at all, Tesla would have had to start construction of two factories this summer to have a chance.
 
I don't find 600k S/X plausible for 2020 (for the same reasons others have raised) but I was curious about the global market for a luxury car in the 100k range. The best I found was this report on the global auto market including projections for 2020 by segment. On page 12 they define the following segments:

Superpremium: Aston Martin, Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini
Premium: BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, Lincoln, JLR Premium
Sub-premium: VW, Skoda, Ford, Nissan, Renault, Chevrolet
Economy: Dacia, Lada, MarutiSuzuki,Tata, Dongfeng

On page 13 they have the following data for the premium segment:

2013: 6.9 million
2020 estimate: 10.6 million

I think the premium segment here is a bit broad though, I would love to see better data!
 
Although BMW is a "premium" brand, not all BMW models are direct competitors to the Model S. According to its latest annual report, BMW sold 1,655,138 cars worldwide. Here's the general breakout by series:
1 Series12.9%
3/4 Series31.1%
5/6 Series23.9%
7 Series3.4%
X1/X313.1%
X5/X68.7%
Z40.8%
So only ~25%-30% of BMW's sales compete directly with the Model S, and another ~10% compete with the Model X. I imagine a similar analysis of the other premium brands sales would show something similar. That suggests that worldwide sales of premium sedans is on the order of 2 million/year.

And that's keeping Lexus in the mix. A big chunk of Lexus sales are in the smaller/cheaper segment. I couldn't find worldwide statistics, but in the US Lexus has sold 244,038 cars through October 31. Of those, only 7.2% were GS sedans, 2.7% LS sedans, 7.3% GX SUVs, and 1.3% LX SUVs. (The big sellers are the RX SUV at 34.5% and the ES sedan at 16.7%.) So, only 10% of Lexus models are in the same ballpark as a Model S, and only 9% of its SUVs.
 
why does the Model S need to stay in the "superpremium" luxury segment? Why compare sales to Mercedes S Class, BMW 7-Series, Audi A7 when maybe the goal should be E Class, 5 Series and A6? The BMW 5 Series sold 367,000 in 2013. Why can't Tesla bring the price "down" over the next 5-7 years?
 
why does the Model S need to stay in the "superpremium" luxury segment? Why compare sales to Mercedes S Class, BMW 7-Series, Audi A7 when maybe the goal should be E Class, 5 Series and A6? The BMW 5 Series sold 367,000 in 2013. Why can't Tesla bring the price "down" over the next 5-7 years?

Because it is hard to develop the brand equity to sell cars in the $70k-$140k segment and the fat margins they command. Ask Cadillac,Lexus,Infiniti,Acura and Lincoln how easy that is to do. Even Hyundai is trying to do this with very limited success. Taking the "Model S" brand down market would be incredibly stupid. It leaves profits on the table that can be used to fund superchargers,stores, service centers, R&D and Gigafactories to go downmarket.

Model 3 will sell in the $35k-$70K range and maybe overlap a bit with Model S.


Perhaps in the not too distant future Tesla will have a small medium large lineup like 3 Series-C Class-A4, 5 Series-E-Class-A6, 7 Series-S Class- A8.
 
why does the Model S need to stay in the "superpremium" luxury segment? Why compare sales to Mercedes S Class, BMW 7-Series, Audi A7 when maybe the goal should be E Class, 5 Series and A6? The BMW 5 Series sold 367,000 in 2013. Why can't Tesla bring the price "down" over the next 5-7 years?

In my numbers, I was assuming the Model S competes against the 5-, 6-, and 7-series.