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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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Well stated dude! I agree Margin is not for most people. As of now I'm paying $150 a day margin interest and it hurts
@TrendTrader007
so, IF your carrying costs are ~2.5 shares TSLA/week, if you deleveraged your margin to ~1 share TSLA/week what would the break even point be? could you make a dynamic graph conveying the information? how complex would the graph need to be?
(is this a dumb newbie question? i know almost zip about options and apologize in advance as the pebble i am)
 
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thanks for your detailed response.

i am clearly not as negative on these solar financings as you are.

the tax equity investors show high irr, but it's an artifact of the way irr is calculated in the sense that most of the money comes back in the first years, and then the rest of the money that trickles back. this is what i've seen in solar deals that i have had studied in great detail.

example: tax equity puts in 25k, gets paid out 20k, 3k, 3k, 2k, and 2k in years 1-5. work out the irr on a spreadsheet it will be 11%.

but it's not 11% compounded on 25k... it's something quite different - the actual cash return over 5 years in this case is only 20% - which is equal to 3.7% compounded on 25k. hope that makes sense.

this is also why those nci's are so juicy - as the early years pass on the tax equity investors are taking out big bites of the project income (% wise). and as a feature of the cash return being frontloaded, the amount it takes to get the investor to target irr drops nicely and steadily.

so i do believe the nci's are real value accumulation.

you make a good point they are subject to risk, delinquencies, defaults etc. but if they've npv'd them at a 6% rate the value organically increases 6% each year as an offset. also the nice thing about hlbv is that they basically saying, if we dump this pig now and split up the cash, who gets what? and presumably they are using some sensible liquidation values that reflect market reality.

i think when tepper went after terraform power he basically validated the value in yieldco's, and scty basically has its own captive yieldco.

you're right about model 3 being the prime factor - but i am looking for some edge in may options too =)

again thanks so much for your inputs.

The proxy which will be filed in about 10 days will provide some details about inter-company transactions.

Sure, but God speed in unpacking the intricacies of SCTY's SPEs/VIEs and HLBV transactions. To me, they are like the sliced and diced tranches of credit default swaps of a decade ago. No one understood them. but their promoters assured the naive they were "can't lose" (aka "no brainer") investments.

SCTY/TSLA provides zero details about the underlying terms of the tax equity transactions. They eschew Brandeis' "sunlight [transparency/ openness] is the best disinfectant." If you want any affirmation of that, just look at Exhibit 10.25 to SCTY's 10k--the Riverbend deal with Panasonic. scty-ex1025_1256.htm. There are more asterisks (*) than virtually any other character. Why even go through the pretense of filing such a useless "disclosure"?

Far be it from me to curb your enthusiasm about the profits/benefits of the SCTY acquistion. I have not followed solar, but have the impression that competition was cut-throat recently, and many nationwide players either were insolvent or lost considerable sums. I just do not understand how large regional/nationwide solar sellers can compete with small, local independent contractors/installers. None of the big HVAC, electrical, or plumbing equipment manufacturers, or similar firms like Generac, have in-house sales and installation crews. They all work through regional distributors and local SBO sellers/installers. During slack periods they do not carry their crews on overhead, but furlough them and allow them to go hunting, fishing or return home south of the border until business picks up.

Regardless of what SCTY can lay off to SPEs/VIES, if the underlying leases/PPAs are unprofitable, it's just delaying the inevitable "come to Jesu" accounting. You yourself have observed (among other things):

"coming into 2016 solarcity was running a bloated operation. they had sized the business for about 30% more activity than they were able to achieve. the high cost overheads - particularly in sales/customer acquisition costs - basically exploded their cost per watt installed.
More significantly, our sales costs rose 80% as compared to Q4 2015 to $0.97 per Watt owing to a decline in MW Booked to 160 in the quarter. - scty q1 2016 shareholder letter
the other problem they were facing is that other large players had arrived into this solar financing and development business. the value per installed watt they were able to realize dropped meaningfully from 2015. with collapsing margins, a business model that needed constant cash infusion to keep going, and an industry that was seeing big bankruptcies like sunedison, solarcity's stock was taking a beating.
after q1 2016, they had already decided to do some restructuring to cut costs and make sales more efficient. they were going to shift their mix towards more 3rd party solar loans that would result in upfront revenue and gross profit vs delayed cash flow realization. the biggest problem they had was being stuck in a me-too commodity business. most of the financing and installation costs were going to be the same for everyone, so it was going to come down to the strongest would be those who could acquire customers most efficiently."
URL="2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion"]2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion[/URL]

Another issue is :
"Of the more than 300,000 solar power systems the company has installed, the majority are under leases and PPAs and are contracted to generate more than $8 billion in customer payments over the next 20 years, and up to $4.8 billion more with customer renewals after year 20."
So the cost per year to the lessees and PPA purchasers in years 20 to 30 is going to be 20% higher than in years 0-20? This only works if technology stands still and the price from legacy utilities for electrical service sky-rockets. If not, SCTY incurs the obligation after 20 years to remove obsolete systems from the properties.

With respect to the VIEs, there may be an unrecognized liability exposure:

"The arrangements used are complex and the number of parties that have been willing to invest in tax equity has been limited. As a result, both the administrative costs (in terms of legal and accounting fees) and financing cost (in terms of rate of return required by tax equity investors) are high. As of this writing, tax equity investors require 7.5-9.5% for unleveraged projects. This is the after-tax return to the tax equity investor, net of its tax benefits. The cash return to the tax investor and cost of capital seen by the developer are lower."

"There are two major sub-types of the partnership flip. The so-called yield-based flip is the most popular. Tax Equity gets the vast majority of the tax benefits plus enough cash to get its required after-tax IRR at an expected target flip date. If the assets under-perform, the flip is delayed until Tax Equity gets its agreed return."

Tax Equity 101: Structures


Admittedly, those are generic comments about tax equity transactions and do not necessarily apply to SCTY. However, in the first half of 2016, SCTY was generally considered a basket case. Listen to the May 2016 CC, if you are skeptical. It's likely that Investors in the following transactions used SCTY's situation to maximize their returns:

"On May 2, 2016, the Company pooled and transferred its interests in certain financing funds into a special purpose entity, or SPE, and issued $121.7 million in aggregate principal of debt of the SPE (see Note 12, Indebtedness) and also issued $100.7 million of equity interests in the SPE, both to the same investor. Of the net proceeds from this transaction, $125.0 million was used to partially prepay the revolving aggregation credit facility due in December 2018, $25.7 million was used to partially prepay the term loan due in December 2016 and the remaining amount was retained by the Company to fund its operations.

On September 8, 2016, the Company pooled and transferred its interests in certain financing funds into a SPE and issued $210.0 million in aggregate principal of debt of the SPE (see Note 12) to a syndicate of banks and also issued $95.2 million of equity interests in the SPE to an investor. Of the net proceeds from this transaction, $192.3 million was used to partially prepay the revolving aggregation credit facility due in December 2018 and the remaining amount was retained by the Company to fund its operations.

On December 16, 2016, the Company pooled and transferred its interests in certain financing funds into a SPE and issued $170.0 million in aggregate principal of debt of the SPE (see Note 12) to a syndicate of banks and also issued $70.9 million of equity interests in the SPE to an investor. Of the net proceeds from this transaction, $131.0 million was used to partially prepay the revolving aggregation credit facility due in December 2018 and the remaining amount was retained by the Company to fund its operations."
scty-10k_20161231.htm

Regardless, the SCTY component to the financial statements is largely a diversion. Although positive profits after NCIs may fool some of the people some of the time, the quintessential issue for the next year is whether the M3 can generate enough operating leverage to sustain consistent profits and pay off maturing debt.

 
The problem with going on margin to invest all-in on Tesla is during a steep pull back you get margin calls that force you to sell when you should be buying more. You then end up losing a ton on the drop, miss out on the bounce rally, AND you owe interest for the pleasure of the experience. Some people can pull this off and still come out ahead but it's not for most people.

If one wants to leverage up it's much better to use options versus margin to achieve greater leverage (IMO) as your losses are fixed and you can do things to reduce risk like create spreads.

I also am not sure he was talking about margin. It sounds like he wanted to take out a loan (similar concepts but different in that a loan is going to have monthly payments he may or may not be able to afford.)

Let me say this: it really sucks to lose money but it sucks even more when you lose someone else's money that you have to pay back.

I appreciate the concentration on downside, and in practical terms *most* people should not be picking stocks, and *most* of those people should not be doing so over 100% in one stock. But it takes some qualification to determine this poster's situation. And the reasons you give I disagree with essentially top to bottom.

"during a steep pull back you get margin calls"

This is generally a pathological case, not the principal one, in terms of likelihood. Also, it's not logical, it just feels abusive because of loss of choice. If giving you more choice was actually beneficial then it would make sense for lenders to allow that choice in aggregate to their borrowers as a policy. They can afford for you to lose more than you can afford to lose.

"force you to sell when you should be buying more"

you can't predetermine that the reason for the pullback is not a good reason.

"You then end up losing a ton on the drop, miss out on the bounce rally,"

begging the question. Of course that scenario sucks. You designed it that way.

"your losses are fixed.."

losses are fixed at 100% (on call options), and you can lose 100% even if the stock goes up. Margin calls also fix your losses, as does bankruptcy law (at 100%), etc.

"you can do things to reduce risk like create spreads."

I think the use of the word 'risk' is often troublesome. If it's defined as worst case scenario, you can reduce that by selling shares.

Options are tradeoffs more than risk reduction. They change the distribution of performance with respect to time and the price of the underlying equity. They also suffer from horrible tax structures, bad fulfillment spreads, and just general confusion from the complexity. You could design it so that the stock goes up 5% in a year and you lose all of your money. That's not risk reduction or is it. Better to not even use the word.

"it sucks even more when you lose someone else's money that you have to pay back."

Not really.

On the other hand, if I don't think it's great to increase my margin, then it shouldn't be a good idea to keep my current margin levels, because there's nothing special about my current margin levels at all.

I like that. You show promise with that kind of reasoning.

I'd say the question revolves mostly around your likely ability to replace that money if you lost it, as well as how much sheer thrill you get from the potential gain\loss\educational experience. With your allocation, you are gonna be drawn to pay a lot of attention, and you are gonna have emotional responses based on extreme movements. Is the potential reward or harm worth it in your case? The numbers you gave aren't that big, but they can be for some people. If you are young and you lost all of that you would think it's the end of the world, but probably isn't. For reference, I have 7 figures of margin debt which is 50% on top of my net account value and Tesla is 1/3rd my total positions. So if Tesla goes bankrupt I basically lose 1/2. Even at 1/2 balance my future is ok. I have also personally gotten more aggressive as my account grew past 'set for life' level, but I have a lot of experience with the emotions of losing as well as winning in 20 years of practice.

Stock pickers like everyone here (and me) like to think they have an edge on the house. That they are playing poker with better odds than other people because they are so magically smart and talented. It's generally not true. Even though we picked Tesla, and appear to be gifted because of that, it's not true. Frankly, you can notice that by the fact there are people here that made money but don't know what they are talking about. The implication is that you can completely remove the fact that this is Tesla, and the fact that you are you, and treat the subject like a random variable that may lose 100% or gain 500% or somewhere in between. You also benefit from the fact the market doesn't like to misprice anything.
 
What are claims adjusters/lawyers going to do when Allstate (non-partner) pays the claim that really was the fault of the vehicle manufacturer?

Assert their right of subrogation and pursue the vehicle manufacturer for reimbursement of their loss. All legacy auto manufacturers have product liability coverage at least at the lower levels, although there may be some cost sharing arrangements with the excess insurers at the higher levels. The benefit of having product liability insurance at the lower levels is that the carrier has an duty to defend.

As the criminal defense bar claims: "You can beat the rap, but not the ride." In civil litigation, the "ride" can be expensive, not just in defense costs but in distracting management attention from executing the business plan.
 
you're right about model 3 being the prime factor - but i am looking for some edge in may options too =)

There are two aspects to the May earnings report: a.) the profit or loss shown; and b.) how market reacts to financial statements and the guidance. IMO, guidance about M3 progress will dwarf all else and determine the value of your options.
 
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At this point, Tesla is already valued as if they had complete and unabashed success up to at least the 500k per year sales level. What the market is looking for goes pretty far and wide now and is quite speculative.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me if the residential solar business is worth 10% of the company (more than 5B$ currently). That would take some pressure off automotive performance.

For me, it's not really about EV at this point but the mobility-as-a-service angle which Jonas is also fond of (he doesn't get enough respect here). Automotive will pay the bills on the current market value, mobility is what kicks the return to the stratosphere. Heck, the cars might end up a loss leader.
 
<SNIP>
CNBC panelist Kevin O’Leary said, “You spend your whole time driving on top of a giant lithium battery; that makes me a little nervous.” This is what I emailed to Kevin:
<SNIP>

Here's the link for contacting Kevin: Contact | KevinOLeary.com - Kevin O'Leary's official website
Thanks for this. Since I'm snarky today, and Mr. O'Leary may be Canada's prime minister in the future, I sent in this:

"I read a post that quoted you: CNBC panelist Kevin O’Leary said, “You spend your whole time driving on top of a giant lithium battery; that makes me a little nervous.”

I submit that driving on electric is far safer than driving behind a gasoline-powered bucket of bolts, metal, rubber, liquid and noxious fumes and where the engine is trying to explode and destroy itself every second. As a well-respected financial professional, and as someone who is attempting to become the leader of one of Canada's major parties, I expect more from you than apparently listening only to bearish and ignorant headlines. Do some real research about the state of EVs today. Take a few rides in any make. You'll find that EVs are far better to drive, and far more fun. Oh -- and don't forget the statistic that in the U.S. alone, there are 150,000 car fires ANNUALLY (2006-2010 statistical average) and two deaths every three days from gasoline car fires. You're being nervous about the wrong thing."
 
Thanks for this. Since I'm snarky today, and Mr. O'Leary may be Canada's prime minister in the future, I sent in this:

"I read a post that quoted you: CNBC panelist Kevin O’Leary said, “You spend your whole time driving on top of a giant lithium battery; that makes me a little nervous.”

I submit that driving on electric is far safer than driving behind a gasoline-powered bucket of bolts, metal, rubber, liquid and noxious fumes and where the engine is trying to explode and destroy itself every second. As a well-respected financial professional, and as someone who is attempting to become the leader of one of Canada's major parties, I expect more from you than apparently listening only to bearish and ignorant headlines. Do some real research about the state of EVs today. Take a few rides in any make. You'll find that EVs are far better to drive, and far more fun. Oh -- and don't forget the statistic that in the U.S. alone, there are 150,000 car fires ANNUALLY (2006-2010 statistical average) and two deaths every three days from gasoline car fires. You're being nervous about the wrong thing."

It's all about empiricism. The 'lithium-ion batteries have caught fire on planes and in phones' angle works until you actually have driven billions of miles in a hundred thousand cars using them without issue, then you have to defer to the evidence. And if there was a new battery or design to come along, I'd be a bit more concerned again. Gasoline is more energy dense than batteries, but batteries are two substances designed to be maximally reactive (via oxidation) with each other, separated by as small a distance from each other as possible without touching. So it's not a first principle thing really.

BTW, I've talked to people in SV working on driverless cars, and *many* of them are concerned about the moral question of being in charge of people's lives. What if you wrote the code that killed someone? Again, it's an empirical question but human irrationality is profound even in smart people. In philosophy, this is the Trolley Problem: Trolley problem - Wikipedia

Then again it's also a popular experimental result that as long as someone in a position of authority tells you to do it, you will violate moral norms and do it (the classic push this button to shock a test subject thing). Although there seemed to be a lot of people complaining about the poor guy on the UAL flight, no one actually did anything. So crack that whip Elon (in this case for good).
 
BTW, I've talked to people in SV working on driverless cars, and *many* of them are concerned about the moral question of being in charge of people's lives. What if you wrote the code that killed someone? Again, it's an empirical question but human irrationality is profound even in smart people. In philosophy, this is the Trolley Problem: Trolley problem - Wikipedia

Are you sure you talked to real engineers. Don't they know people write code to control medical equipments? Equipment in the mining site? big huge trucks and conveys etc, any one of them can kill you? and all of the weapons such as tanks, fighter jets, missiles, drones? Don't you know people are developing fully autonomous guns?
 
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Are you sure you talked to real engineers. Don't they know people write code to control medical equipments? Equipment in the mining site? big huge trucks and conveys etc, any one of them can kill you? and all of the weapons such as tanks, fighter jets, missiles, drones? Don't you know people are developing fully autonomous guns?

I'm sure.

Hopefully I made it clear I don't think it's purely rational, but I sympathise with it being very human.

Do you know what the engineers that worked on those things think about it? How about the people flying missile drones that are just following orders? I mean if they don't do it, someone else would, so what is their culpability? And at any rate, the work will get done, but it's an interesting fact that will go on at various levels of publicity and concern. While I like that a position on Tesla is a position in autonomous cars, I do think there is potentially excessive optimism in the proximity of the technology combined with a lack of imagination about just how incredibly transforming it will be when it does arrive.
 
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There are two aspects to the May earnings report: a.) the profit or loss shown; and b.) how market reacts to financial statements and the guidance. IMO, guidance about M3 progress will dwarf all else and determine the value of your options.

i think m3 guidance is going to be fine, based all we've seen to date.

there's one thing you left out: what if... what if they could guide to positive gaap earnings for q2 as well? that will change the game completely imo.

my modeling indicates that with the levers they have in autopilot revenue recognition and timing of zev credit sales, and with the tailwind of solarcity's nci's, they could report gaap profitability this quarter and guide to even higher profits the next quarter... in the midst of the model 3 capex ramp. that would get the shorts undies' all in a big ole bunch!

plus guiding to 2 quarters of straight profits - which we've never seen - will force the possibility of 4 quarters of consecutive profitability. and then the big dogs that follow the s&p 500 will start coming out to play.
 
So what does the insurance "partner" do when their claims adjusters/lawyers decide the liability for the claim they paid really was the fault of the vehicle manufacturer?

Brian- I wonder if they could construct a composite policy, that uses a national independent underwriter of the liability portion of the coverage... The national underwriter could then channel the coverage to the appropriate state regs where the car is registered
 
luvb2b - in anticipation of positive earnings, etc - how are you preparing yourself. Buying call options?! More shares!? Would love to hear what you are scheming to do or have done. As for me - I'm just holding shares but have sold Jan 2018 350 calls against my position - may roll those out to 2019 430s based on how next several weeks play out
 
i think m3 guidance is going to be fine, based all we've seen to date.

there's one thing you left out: what if... what if they could guide to positive gaap earnings for q2 as well? that will change the game completely imo.

my modeling indicates that with the levers they have in autopilot revenue recognition and timing of zev credit sales, and with the tailwind of solarcity's nci's, they could report gaap profitability this quarter and guide to even higher profits the next quarter... in the midst of the model 3 capex ramp. that would get the shorts undies' all in a big ole bunch!

plus guiding to 2 quarters of straight profits - which we've never seen - will force the possibility of 4 quarters of consecutive profitability. and then the big dogs that follow the s&p 500 will start coming out to play.
Assuming the levers in place, it becomes a strategic issue of when this would most benefit. The strategic benefit of inducing a short cover and juicing the SP is to setup for dilutive Cap raise for GF3 etc. If this is part of the short term strategy, it's misaligned with timing. If it's a beginning of a 4 quarter timeframe for next year, it makes more sense, but that is not timed for short covering.
Meanwhile, EM is thinking in much bigger and longer time frames.
However, if he has the next GFs lined up, he may be thinking exactly what you are inferring and once agin pulling everything forward.

This is from one who supported and invested in the merger and the resultant -pulling the PPAs forward to use the capital on M3 and other. So, I'm hoping your analysis points to your supposition. I've always held we are umderdiluted in Capital given the opportunity. I'm placing bets with stock and J19 LEAPS (both ITM and OTM). But not planning a Q1 ER option trade
Looking forward to seeing your numbers!
 
At this point, Tesla is already valued as if they had complete and unabashed success up to at least the 500k per year sales level. What the market is looking for goes pretty far and wide now and is quite speculative.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me if the residential solar business is worth 10% of the company (more than 5B$ currently). That would take some pressure off automotive performance.

For me, it's not really about EV at this point but the mobility-as-a-service angle which Jonas is also fond of (he doesn't get enough respect here). Automotive will pay the bills on the current market value, mobility is what kicks the return to the stratosphere. Heck, the cars might end up a loss leader.

Have you read the research note by Adam Jonas? The valuation of $300 was in the mindset of not achieving 500,000k by 2023. Imagine if they hit that number in 2019 what would that mean? Way more than $300...
 
i've started the process of posting my q1 17 model in the q1 2017 thread. i'll do it in pieces because to put it all out at once would be a mess for discussion purposes. and my hands would get tired typing.

Options are tradeoffs more than risk reduction. They change the distribution of performance with respect to time and the price of the underlying equity. They also suffer from horrible tax structures, bad fulfillment spreads, and just general confusion from the complexity. You could design it so that the stock goes up 5% in a year and you lose all of your money. That's not risk reduction or is it. Better to not even use the word.

i had a post recently about how given retail brokers' margin rates you could use deep in the money longer dated options that have an equal cost of carry but protect your capital in a downside scenario. that's pure risk reduction, i think.

luvb2b - in anticipation of positive earnings, etc - how are you preparing yourself. Buying call options?! More shares!? Would love to hear what you are scheming to do or have done. As for me - I'm just holding shares but have sold Jan 2018 350 calls against my position - may roll those out to 2019 430s based on how next several weeks play out

i don't like to discuss my specific trades so much. let's say i've increased my delta to tesla by about 50% since i came to the conclusion of record revenue and earnings. i'm looking for opportunities to strategically add may calls, but there's a lot of time left and the best juice will come if there's some kind of dip closer to earnings. for now i've got enough exposure.

my view is that part of the vicious 50pt move since the solarcity 10k came out (early March) is that others had realized what i only recently have understood. i think the beat on deliveries was the final nail to seal the deal on an eps and revenue beat. that's why the stock jumped and then hasn't looked back to the 290 level since that morning. i'm sure there are shorts and others reading this board, and as they start to see what i see i believe the stock will have a hard time staying under $300.

the reaction on earnings is a whole different question. clearly some of a beat has been priced in due to the huge move we've had over the last month. however i still feel a revenue and eps beat + guidance raise for next quarter will get you a solid 20-30 point move in the stock from current levels.
 
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The Chinese and Koreans taste in cars aligns more with Americans than Europeans. That is one of the rationales of GM leaving Europe to concentrate on North America and China/Korea.

Success of smaller cars there is a result of cost and cost of fuel. When people move up in income they upsize their cars.

Canadians and Mexicans prefer compact sedans to midsize but prefer full size trucks to midsize. In Mexico fuel subsidies are being reduced while incomes are growing which tend to cancel each other out.

Same with Australia. About 3k Australians buy third party imported full size American pickups every year. A full size Tesla pickup with fueling/maintenance less than a midsize diesel truck would do extremely well their IMO.

India,Japan, and South East Asia definitely prefer smaller cars.

Africa and Latin America prefer smaller cars in so far as cost of fuel is a barrier to bigger vehicles IMO. The Middle Eastern countries with large oil reserves prefer larger cars while Middle Eastern Countries without large oil reserves prefer smaller cars. The have nots are very conscious of national energy independence and which countries the have nots are dependent on.
...
I doubt we would disagree on actual sales in any country because we both obviously see the data. Without doubt there is a substantial market for Model S and X in:
Scandinavia, where there have always been a small subset of buyers who liked big American. Add the environmental issues and there are large sales.
Germany, but the big cars are meant to be very fast too and current Tesla do not have enough capacity to drive ~two hours at 200 kph or more. Samaller ones dominate but still are expected to perform well.
China, where big cars sell but smaller ones dominate and high performance small sedans like M3 do sell well. In China the market is so huge that niches are fine, but the S and X are still bigger than is popular.
We could go on, I'm tempted to discuss Brazil, South Africa and Kuwait...

Still, as Tesla offers a variety of options in Model 3 ternritory I think that the higher and lower trim levels will often have entirely different markets, but in many countries there will be enormous demand if there is high performance, long endurance and easy maintenance. The risk is to generalize too much since most of these markets have unique differences one from another.

FWIW, Kuwait, the UAE, Saudi, Bahrain and Qatar are each different with all of these tending to bifurcate between Model S and X territory on one side and well used Leaf or so on the other. I'll be shocked if the Middle East fails to be a major Tesla region. Iran would be the best, albeit a trifle politically sensitive. These countries have in common a somewhat less than accurate count of actual sales.

If there were a Pickup and an SUV, both with ~500 miles EPA Rated range, Australia would beckon! They would need far better A/C than is currently offered.

Having several imes deal with global expansion it would be fascinating to do that with Tesla.
 
@TrendTrader007
so, IF your carrying costs are ~2.5 shares TSLA/week, if you deleveraged your margin to ~1 share TSLA/week what would the break even point be? could you make a dynamic graph conveying the information? how complex would the graph need to be?
(is this a dumb newbie question? i know almost zip about options and apologize in advance as the pebble i am)
I don't think that way I borrow money at a lower rate and make money at a higher rate my borrowing cost is approximately 4% at one Brokerage and close to 7% at another Brokerage but overall in the last 4 months I've made anywhere from 45 to 50% return on borrowed money so all in all it's worth the stress
And if I'm right then I'll make 200 to 300% returns on borrowed money over the next several months to years so paying 4 to 7 or even 8% interest to make those returns makes sense to me
Now I'm not recommending or advocating debt. Most people don't like debt and I totally understand and agree
However I personally differentiate between good and bad debt and my personal stance is to amplify my returns with borrowed money. While I don't have peace of mind like someone with zero debt, I'm far better off financially with my personal approach
 
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