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This is a fairly asinine attitude, and if I were on the co-op board I'd actually sack the management for wilful financial misconduct, because no, "the provider of the cheaper option didn't come begging to me" is not a reasonable reason to buy the more expensive optionI'll say one last thing about Tesla Energy. I know of a small electric co-op in California that has been looking at buying a battery system. Something on the order of 1 MWh. Tesla quotes this as costing $460K on their website. Tesla isn't even in the running since they don't have anyone actively selling it to this utility - neither Tesla directly nor through an installer/VAR. The Tesla system is almost certainly cheaper and better than what they will end up using, but that's irrelevant if no one is making the sale. You can criticize the utility, but frankly, I agree with them. If Tesla can't be bothered to actively sell the product, where are they going to be when it needs service? It isn't as if Tesla Energy has service centers or anything.
They have more pre-orders than they can currently fulfill. They don't need to "make these sales", they'll just sell their capacity to someone else. If you want to get the battery, you need to call them up and ask them whether they can meet your timeframe.Note that it is up to Tesla to make these sales
No, not a very big deal.Was it a big deal? Just curious - it was two years ago, so little relevance today.
This is a fairly asinine attitude, and if I were on the co-op board I'd actually sack the management for wilful financial misconduct, because no, "the provider of the cheaper option didn't come begging to me" is not a reasonable reason to buy the more expensive option
If you haven't read the GF Q&A is it worth the time. Not only does Elon go into the design philosophy for the Model 3 ramp but also some great tidbits like having 2,000 cars waiting to dock in China at end of last year due to pollution level shutdown of the ports.
Transcript of the Gigafactory Q&A - Great stuff on GF1 • /r/teslamotors
Yes, nothing is certain. It is possible that we could have wwiii or some big financial meltdown or some kid in a garage will make tesla obsolete. But I would say that tesla is definitely comparable to Michael Jordan, they are faster, smarter, and more aggressive than pretty much any other right now, and maybe most important learning faster.
I think of PHEVs like training wheels. For consumers who are nervous about leaving gasoline, they pay extra for a more complicated system which breaks more often. The consumers will quickly graduate to full BEVs, and the smart ones will go direct to BEVs.
There's nothing per se wrong with PHEVs, and they *will* contribute to the destruction of the oil market, but they're a bad investment because they're an inherently temporary thing with a market which won't last more than 10 years before being relegated to a niche. Not worth investing money in.
+ (not forgetting batteries from existing production. IIRC, S&X will continue with existing cell format, therefore, nothing from GF at this time.For 60 kwh batteries -- 583,333 cars. Close enough to the 400K for Model 3 and 100K for Model S & X (with larger batteries)
So more of the Gigafactory will have to be built before they can expand past that. I believe the last target number for the *full* Gigafactory was 150 Gwh. Not happening in 2017. But maybe they can expand from 500K/year in 2018 to a million cars a year by 2019. I think 2020 is more likely.
This is probably a big reason why goverments have supported Hydrogen rather than BEV as they could then tax the delivery, whereas electricity is used everywhere. There was a big push some years back to work out gantry systems for reading vehical use so that they could be charged based on road use. IMHO, I think that they (goverments) knew that this issue was coming.So this may seem a bit random, but relates to the Supercharger monetization discussion.... The one thing that worries me a bit is how long before governments decide to slap electricity used for EV charging with tariffs and taxes. I suppose the fact that SC was "free", made me feel a bit safer about that possibility - granted, SC is not the only charging network out there so this is not a Tesla specific problem.
This may be a very European issue, but over here tariffs and taxes make out 2/3+ of the fuel prices and, in my country, about 10% of the total annual budget of the country. To give you one example, when crude prices fell by 50%, that presented itself as a 25-30% decrease at the pump in Hungary and the government raised tariffs last year to compensate loss of revenues for the state.
Now, sure, even if SC would be free, a government could establish a minimum fee if their losses from EVs not pumping gas got real bad, but what I am more worried about is, that once they start to put tariffs on it, they may go beyond parity with gasoline tariffs as they realize the final bill to the consumer is still a lot less than with gas, so they can "take" more.
Back in summer Tesla didn't have any 21-70s. It's obvious to me that Tesla at some point decided to go slow with the 18650-based TE products, wait for the 21-70s (while everyone worked on getting the production equipment and processes right), then when 21-70s were available, scale up massively. Tesla started receiving 21-70s from Japan in Q4 and cell production has now started at the Gigafactory.I don't think you completely understood my point. Commercial customers care about and need maintenance support. If something costs 25% more, yet comes with much more assurance that it will be repaired quickly and with no fuss should something break, then often commercial customers will go with the more expensive option. My point being that a call center voice at the other end of the line is not enough to reassure an electric utility that Tesla has a response team to fix problems with their rather new and frankly little tested system should one occur. I mean, Tesla doesn't exactly have an unblemished record as far as releasing new products free of problems.
Also, you can bet that TE's competitors are saying their batteries are better, the longevity is better, their reliability is better, etc. You can't counter that with a web site. You need an outside sales force backed up by marketing support that writes up detailed glossy case studies with lots of quotes from satisfied customers. Tesla seemingly has utterly failed to do that so far.
As far as the backlog goes, well color me skeptical. I was on the mid summer Gigafactory tour where we got to see the Powerpack assembly line. It was underwhelming to say the least. It did not look like an operation that was production constrained.
I take it, that these are your opinions, as none of these are facts and you cannot prove these.
You can have the same environmental benefit with a much smaller battery pack. PHEVs just use the batteries more effectively. Ask yourself this: Is the Model S P100D producing more environmental benefit than a Model S 60?
As an example, Volt has a battery that is < 1/3rd the smallest battery pack of any Tesla car, yet Volt drivers drive 90%+ on electricity. Said differently, these cars are simply more battery efficient. So, car makers don't need batteries worth a P100D pack to electrify each car.This is actually better, as it is a faster transition to electric driving with fewer batteries, and so the benefits kick in much sooner. Besides, there is no need to wait at super chargers for the rare long trips. Other than the bragging right of 0-60 mph and 1/4 mile drag racing time, P100D produces 0 extra environmental benefit over a Model S 60.
Last year, more than half million EV/PHEVs were sold worldwide. So, Tesla's share was < 15%. The other 85% are doing just fine. No reason to think they won't do fine in the future. If the battery cells will be really that profitable, why won't Panasonic increase capacity in Japan and sell directly to others, cutting the middleman Tesla? Gigafactory doesn't seem to have any cost advantage. The main idea behind it, IMHO, was to raise $2B. Less than 1/4th of that has been invested in the GF so far.
Going back to the story, it is not clear to me what those 24K cars will be for. If for city use, this sounds too much for just 4 cities. New York, the largest US city, has 11k cars, and gradually converting only 25% by 2025. Using a similar plan, these 4 cities should be looking for much less th_r=0
This is probably a big reason why goverments have supported Hydrogen rather than BEV as they could then tax the delivery, whereas electricity is used everywhere. There was a big push some years back to work out gantry systems for reading vehical use so that they could be charged based on road use. IMHO, I think that they (goverments) knew that this issue was coming.
An interesting point regarding the introduction (or not) or Green Wave's to the UK (source Wiki)
In the UK, in 2009, it was revealed that the Department for Transport had previously discouraged green waves as they reduced fuel usage, and thus less revenue was raised from fuel taxes.[10][11] Despite this government Webtag documents were only updated in 2011. It is still unclear if the economic appraisal software used to apply these guidelines has also been updated and if the new guidelines are being applied to new projects.
I think that these days, there is a better understanding of the impact of paying some other country for a commodity that you just basically burn and the environmental impact, cost to society, health services etc. A few more tanks and pipes needed on the MONIAC computer.
As I already stated, Tesla will sell EVERY car and EVERY GigaFactory cell it can produce for many years to come. If you disagree with that, fine, build your case. Otherwise, stop ignoring that statement.
That was one of the deliberate and biased articles I've ever read. He paints a picture of Elon as a Trump mini me. Bio says he worked at Intl Business Times and a national news editor at Bloomberg national news. Friend of Kory?It's weird, a "negative" article on Elon on the New Yorker.
Elon Musk Has Delivery Issues
This is definitely not Europe only. Most of the rest of the world has similar issues. For example, here in Brazil direct taxes make 53% of retail price for the cheapest gasoline, but the net is actually around 70% due to the 27% ethanol included and the additional taxes imposed for "aditavada" the grade a modern vehicle requires. Similar effects are almost global.So this may seem a bit random, but relates to the Supercharger monetization discussion....
So do residential customers.I don't think you completely understood my point. Commercial customers care about and need maintenance support.
So, when they called Tesla -- they DID call Tesla, right? -- did Tesla actually call them back promptly and answer their questions?If something costs 25% more, yet comes with much more assurance that it will be repaired quickly and with no fuss should something break, then often commercial customers will go with the more expensive option. My point being that a call center voice at the other end of the line is not enough to reassure an electric utility that Tesla has a response team to fix problems with their rather new and frankly little tested system should one occur.
True.I mean, Tesla doesn't exactly have an unblemished record as far as releasing new products free of problems.
I have enough confidence in Tesla,Elon and JB that 25% of my portfolio is in TSLA.
But I am not putting 95% or 100%.
IMO that is nuts.
There is more than death or serious injury to VIP that can stop Tesla from being the Michael Jordan of industrial companies.
That was one of the deliberate and biased articles I've ever read. He paints a picture of Elon as a Trump mini me. Bio says he worked at Intl Business Times and a national news editor at Bloomberg national news. Friend of Kory?
I ask him if Mr. Trump and Mr. Musk are similar.
Peter Thiel: “I’m going to get in trouble, but they are, actually. They’re both grandmaster-level salespeople and these very much larger-than-life figures.”
This is actually painfully hard to implement, because of the substitutability of electricity (most people charge their cars at home).So this may seem a bit random, but relates to the Supercharger monetization discussion.... The one thing that worries me a bit is how long before governments decide to slap electricity used for EV charging with tariffs and taxes.