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Another 1MWh Tesla Powerpack Installation. This is great but it won't add much revenue and I was hoping for more utility sized installations.
Tesla found an energy storage market in breweries and wineries, installs new Powerpack project at Sierra Nevada

1MWh is "good" but right, not a lot of revenue since it is about 10-13 cars' worth of batteries packaged into storage cabinets. And it is in California and possibly a project logged into SGIP going back a year or two - the buyer (brewery) gets a good amount of money for doing this project, so it definitely is a good thing. Might even be able to find the project in the Project list out at Self-Generation Incentive Program

based on the 2014-2016 reserved 500KW Tesla projects in the list, most are getting over $700,000 from the state to do the 500KW project. Also, the state pays the same whether it is 1MWh of batteries or 2MWh - they pay on power throughput for "2 hours or more" - so the customer is better off buying the least amount of batteries and the most "power" delivery - the requirement is 2-hours of runtime per day for SGIP approval (even though batteries lose some capacity every year, they pay for whatever the test shows for the initial 2-hour tests). Newer projects with 2.0 series batteries would most likely be the best payoff due to the higher density powerpacks.
 
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They just don't want to give up.

Toyota, Shell Among Auto and Oil Giants Forming Hydrogen Council

New "Hydrogen Council" launches in Davos | TOYOTA Global Newsroom

As far as I am concerned the more time they spend on this the further ahead Tesla will be.

The oil companies REALLY want to keep selling us molecules in perpetuity.
Being even further ahead is possibly good for the stock, bad for the (people on the ) planet though. Tesla can't do this on it's own in time.
 
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Anyone have any informed idea of la date for the Q4 ER? Schedule for posting at least is obviously behind Q3.

PALO ALTO, CA -- (Marketwired) -- 10/07/16 -- Tesla (NASDAQ: TSLA) will post its financial results for the third quarter ended September 30, 2016, after market close on Wednesday, October 26, 2016. At that time, Tesla will issue a brief advisory release containing a link to the Q3 2016 Update Letter, available on the Tesla IR website. Tesla management will hold a live question and answer webcast that day at 2:30pm Pacific Time (5:30pm Eastern Time) to discuss the Company's financial and business results and outlook.
Yahoo finance estimates week of Feb 8th

According to the SEC and investopedia they have 60 days SEC.gov | Form 10-K. When must a company announce earnings? Although I wouldn't be surprised if they can file for an extension because of the merger. And there are some other big accounting changes brewing that they might want to delay announcing, but maybe not. So on the one hand I wouldn't be surprised by a delay, but on the other hand the merger was very tightly orchestrated and Tesla is usually pretty top notch with accounting so maybe not. The Yahoo date is just an estimate so I wouldn't go exactly by that. In other words I don't know, but I hope that helps.:)

Edit: I thought you were talking about the 10k. 4q and annual letter was on Feb 10 last year.
 
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They just don't want to give up.

Toyota, Shell Among Auto and Oil Giants Forming Hydrogen Council

New "Hydrogen Council" launches in Davos | TOYOTA Global Newsroom

As far as I am concerned the more time they spend on this the further ahead Tesla will be.

I've never understood the negativity for hydrogen that Elon esposuses. A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery. And is much less environmentally damaging than a battery. I've always assumed when solar and wind got big enough to produce more than 100% of our needs that elen would suddenly say fuel cell cars are okey doky and that he'll release fuel cell Teslas if there's demand. Batteries only make sense when 1. Renewables are small part of grid 2. Mars.
 
I've never understood the negativity for hydrogen that Elon esposuses. A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery. And is much less environmentally damaging than a battery. I've always assumed when solar and wind got big enough to produce more than 100% of our needs that elen would suddenly say fuel cell cars are okey doky and that he'll release fuel cell Teslas if there's demand. Batteries only make sense when 1. Renewables are small part of grid 2. Mars.

H2 fool sells don't make sense, because
1. It is a shell-game to continue selling fossil fuels under the fake "clean" umbrella: practically all commercially available H2 is produced by steam-reforming fossil fuels which has CO2 as a by-product in quantities similar or larger per mile traveled than burning the same fossil fuel in an ICE.
2. If H2 is produced from water via electrolysis using clean electricity and clean electricity is used to compress H2 to be usable in cars, then the total energy wasted is about 5 TIMES the amount than using a BEV for same distance travel. In short, the inefficiency is so staggering that even a 100 year old ICE or steam-car seems super-efficient compared to that. You could do a whole lot more other useful things with all that wasted electricity.

Ps: You can see more detailed explanations in the thread: Hydrogen vs. Battery
 
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I've never understood the negativity for hydrogen that Elon esposuses. A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery. And is much less environmentally damaging than a battery. I've always assumed when solar and wind got big enough to produce more than 100% of our needs that elen would suddenly say fuel cell cars are okey doky and that he'll release fuel cell Teslas if there's demand. Batteries only make sense when 1. Renewables are small part of grid 2. Mars.

I think you might feel different if you look in to the sources for Hydrogen. I believe currently the most economical way to obtain pure Hydrogen is from Hydrocarbons (natural gas).

Mike
 
I've never understood the negativity for hydrogen that Elon esposuses. A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery.....

Others can correct me if I am wrong but a fuel cell can not possibly put out the 240kWh needed to accelerate the slowest Tesla. In all hydrogen fuel cell cars I have read about the fuel cell does nothing but charge a lithium battery and assist during acceleration. That means all the "better" bits of the fuel cell go away since you still need a sizable battery. With a fuel cell all you are doing is adding more to a battery electric vehicle and decreasing efficiency.
But.... we have been down this discussion before so there's that....
 
I've never understood the negativity for hydrogen that Elon esposuses. A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery. And is much less environmentally damaging than a battery. I've always assumed when solar and wind got big enough to produce more than 100% of our needs that elen would suddenly say fuel cell cars are okey doky and that he'll release fuel cell Teslas if there's demand. Batteries only make sense when 1. Renewables are small part of grid 2. Mars.

This articles may help you understand why hydrogen cars are such a bad idea. It was written by former fuel cell engineer. It's extremely long but worthwhile reading.

Why fuel cell cars don't work - part 1 - mux' blog - Tweakblogs - Tweakers
Why fuel cell cars don't work - part 2 - mux' blog - Tweakblogs - Tweakers
Why fuel cell cars don't work - part 3 - mux' blog - Tweakblogs - Tweakers
Why fuel cell cars don't work - part 4 - mux' blog - Tweakblogs - Tweakers
 
Others can correct me if I am wrong but a fuel cell can not possibly put out the 240kWh needed to accelerate the slowest Tesla. In all hydrogen fuel cell cars I have read about the fuel cell does nothing but charge a lithium battery and assist during acceleration. That means all the "better" bits of the fuel cell go away since you still need a sizable battery. With a fuel cell all you are doing is adding more to a battery electric vehicle and decreasing efficiency.
But.... we have been down this discussion before so there's that....
So just a new form of hybrid. And oil companies can provide something to pump at all those gas stations. FC is just a way to delay the death of oil and provide a way for oil companies to sell something when the inevitable happens.
 
So just a new form of hybrid. And oil companies can provide something to pump at all those gas stations. FC is just a way to delay the death of oil and provide a way for oil companies to sell something when the inevitable happens.

Before the gigafactory there were plenty of barriers to a cheap EV too. I find it hard to believe if energy was spent on graphene water filters for seawater and electrolysis powered by solar for things to be far further along than they are now. I'm happy with batteries. But if you put energy into improving fuel cells your going to get improvements as well.
 
Before the gigafactory there were plenty of barriers to a cheap EV too. I find it hard to believe if energy was spent on graphene water filters for seawater and electrolysis powered by solar for things to be far further along than they are now. I'm happy with batteries. But if you put energy into improving fuel cells your going to get improvements as well.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars are inferior to battery EV at first principles. No getting around that.
 
Before the gigafactory there were plenty of barriers to a cheap EV too. I find it hard to believe if energy was spent on graphene water filters for seawater and electrolysis powered by solar for things to be far further along than they are now. I'm happy with batteries. But if you put energy into improving fuel cells your going to get improvements as well.
A lot of research has been done on hydrogen fuel cells over the last 50 years, but you still require several breakthroughs for hydrogen to make any kind of sense:

1. Clean hydrogen produced from electrolysis requires 3-5 times more energy per mile travelled. You may say that that's irrelevant if the energy is clean, but no. The difference is that where a BEV can make due with ~3 kW of rooftop solar, small enough to fit on a typical garage, a hydrogen car would require 9-15 kW. There's no such thing as free energy.
2. Storage. Today, hydrogen cars store hydrogen in pressure tanks at 700 bar. But the gravimetric and volumetric energy densities aren't great. If you compare a Toyota Mirai to a Model 3, the Model 3 will have a lower curb weight, longer range, an extra seat, and the trunk isn't occupied by a large hydrogen tank. 700 bar hydrogen storage will *never* have acceptable volumetric energy density, as the properties of hydrogen won't change. The gravimetric energy density might improve, if you start using hydrogen tanks made out of carbon nanotubes or something similar. (Today they're made out of carbon fiber.) Improving the gravimetric energy density will be costly.
3. Safety. Hydrogen is the most explosive gas known to man. A wide range of hydrogen-air mixtures ignite extremely easily, and are known to self-ignite. This may not be an issue for the first 10 years of a hydrogen cars life, but as the car depreciates, you can expect shortcuts to be made. At some point the public would have to get used to regular explosions, like they've gotten used to gasoline cars bursting into flames.

If fuel cells have any kind of future in road transportation, I think Nissan is on the right track. They're looking at using ethanol fuel cells. Ethanol is much easier to transport and produce. It's also much safer.

A fuel cell will have a much better lifespan than a battery.
No. Everything points to the batteries having a better lifespan. A Model S battery is expected to last 300k miles. A fuel cell may last as little as 100k miles.

And is much less environmentally damaging than a battery.
Highly debatable. Environmental impact and production cost go hand in hand, and fuel cells aren't exactly cheap.
 
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