2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

[TrendTrader007]

Chanos is a contrarian indicator and one year from now we’ll be talking about the Chanos bottom
I totally believe that TSLA is about to take off big time with a huge ferocity thanks to short sellers like Chanos
I stay super long with thousands of shares and hundreds of calls

 

[SteveG3]

Given the impact the success of Tesla will have on his reputation over the next couple of years, I find it improbable that he would knowingly short TSLA while realizing it is foolish, no matter how much he may be getting paid by the fossil fuel industry.

I see what you are looking at, but, that could be said about Bob Lutz, Barron’s, the WSJ, LA Times, Marketwatch and NY Times, and many on air personalities at CNBC, Bloomberg, and Yahoo who’ve been jumping the shark on Tesla for years.

Aren’t there well payed public figures all around us who’ve chosen cash and smiling as they say what they know and what viewers on the other side of the camera know is gibberish. I’m thinking of so many in the “news” media and politicians. Not pointing at “left” or “right” in particular. A public stance and a private one, they know many in the public see this, but, something else has them keep repeating the behavior despite what they realize the public has come to view about their behavior. What percent of Rs do you think realize that anyone can see it’s just silly to dismiss scientists? What percent of Ds do you think realize it’s just silly to keep talking about being in it to lift up the lower income and middle class and keep taking tons of Wall Street and corporate cash? Just like the politicians, like on air “news” presenters, the likes of Chanos also are confident they won’t get called out on this on their TV appearances at friendly networks (though I did see that one backfire on Bob Lutz a few weeks ago).

 

[dm28997]

Could Chanos have a private account long in TSLA while maintaining the short hedge fund positions?

 

[traxila]

Chanos is a shrewd short seller not to be taken lightly. He is dangerous to TSLA. The shorts led by him did a real number on SCTY. I am now certain that SCTY would have gone bankrupt had not Elon stepped in, and it would have totally been because of the short attack. WS did quite a number on SCTY, demanding growth at any cost and then shutting off the debt spigot and instantly demanding a profitable business with the short dogs let loose simultaneously.

I am warily of the opinion that TSLA has weathered the storm that Chanos brought and that he will be moving on soon, to return when TSLA has had another great run and is looking peaked.

Lutz OTOH is like a circus clown. At the helm of the largest carmaker in the world as he rode it into ruin and bankruptcy, he now returns to let us know how good he is at counting beans and that TSLA does not make the cut. Please, he is the comic relief.

 

[geneclean55]

In the past couple years, Chanos has made very public bets against Caterpillar, Tesla, Alibaba, and the Chinese economy!?

Looks shrewd to you?

 

[EinSV]

Given the impact the success of Tesla will have on his reputation over the next couple of years, I find it improbable that he would knowingly short TSLA while realizing it is foolish, no matter how much he may be getting paid by the fossil fuel industry.

He is at an age where he can cash out and retire -- so stringing things along for a couple years can be very lucrative.

He has a sweet deal. The unfortunate folks who are losing money hand over fist in his short hedge funds apparently even pay him a bonus to lose money for them, as long as he loses less money than they would have lost betting against the S&P 500.

So his investors are getting hammered -- but he continues getting fat payouts. As of mid-October this year (the latest info I could find), his two main short funds (Kriticos and Ursus) were down 10.7% and 8.7% YTD. Jim Chanos’s Short Hedge Funds Have Fallen This Year.

Ironically, when he is interviewed on CNBC etc. none of the hosts ever thinks to ask him about the "returns" he gets for his investors -- or in reality the massive amount of investor "cash burn" his short bets result in. Instead, they play along while he uses their platform to attract more investors to keep feeding their cash into the bonfire.

@Curt Renz could probably comment on this but it wouldn't surprise me if he made it a condition of interviews that the hosts not ask him about the poor (negative) returns of his short funds. Or perhaps the hosts avoid the topic on their own to avoid alienating a popular interviewee who generates eyeballs/clicks.

I think the financial media does investors a real disservice giving Chanos and other short sellers like him a soapbox without calling out the massive losses they have caused for their investors over the years.

 

[traxila]

In the past couple years, Chanos has made very public bets against Caterpillar, Tesla, Alibaba, and the Chinese economy!?

Looks shrewd to you?

I would wager he has made money on each on of these. He made a killing on SCTY. He is probably in the black on TSLA as well.

Look I don’t like the guy. I hate this mm crap of going on these BS ‘news’ shows and talking your book. But it is what it is.

 

[GoTslaGo]

This is where his reputation precedes him (and buoys him). The beauty about a short fund is that they ALWAYS have the right to “not disclose” their positions in all their SEC filings. Long positions yes, short no.

So the proverbial “trust me”, I made my reputation shorting Enron... I will short more and make you money.

This is where I wish SEC would fix the rules. All funds should and need to report ALL positions. Why are short funds protected?

 

[30seconds]

I would wager he has made money on each on of these. He made a killing on SCTY. He is probably in the black on TSLA as well.

Look I don’t like the guy. I hate this mm crap of going on these BS ‘news’ shows and talking your book. But it is what it is.

Seriously doubt that he has made money on his most public announcements (which have gone the wrong way) while the find is down overall. If that is true then his other calls are absolute horseshit.

 

[hobbes]

Max Pain is at 322.50, share price stil $15 higher. Maybe that has something to do with late Thursday´s price action, too?!
Max Pain | Maximum-Pain.com

 

[RobStark]

Lutz OTOH is like a circus clown. At the helm of the largest carmaker in the world as he rode it into ruin and bankruptcy, he now returns to let us know how good he is at counting beans and that TSLA does not make the cut. Please, he is the comic relief.

Lutz was never CEO or Chairman of any automaker.

He was essentially #2 at GM serving as Vice Chairman and Head of North American Operations. He is famous for championing cool cars but 90% of the time he was vetoed.

He single handedly rammed the Volt into production when all the senior executives were against it. Obama suggesting it should go into production while GM was going through a bankruptcy sheppared by the White House might also have something to do with it

If Lutz was CEO of GM from 2001-2010 GM would have a significantly differrent car lineup. I am not sure if the financial results would have been materially different. But we will never know.

 

[HG Wells]

Max Pain is at 322.50, share price stil $15 higher. Maybe that has something to do with late Thursday´s price action, too?!
Max Pain | Maximum-Pain.com

Some thing wrong with Max Pain calculation ?
I'm seeing $415 for today.

 

[Mich]

Some thing wrong with Max Pain calculation ?
I'm seeing $415 for today.

Two hours ago ist was $245...

 

[Tslynk67]

Some thing wrong with Max Pain calculation ?
I'm seeing $415 for today.

I see the same, I'd be happy if we close on that

 

[Chickenlittle]

Lutz was never CEO or Chairman of any automaker.

He was essentially #2 at GM serving as Vice Chairman and Head of North American Operations. He is famous for championing cool cars but 90% of the time he was vetoed.

He single handedly rammed the Volt into production when all the senior executives were against it. Obama suggesting it should go into production while GM was going through a bankruptcy sheppared by the White House might also have something to do with it

If Lutz was CEO of GM from 2001-2010 GM would have a significantly differrent car lineup. I am not sure if the financial results would have been materially different. But we will never know.

He was chairman of board at via motors which as far as I can figure out has totally failed

 

[avoigt]

I did count quite some postings on this and M3OC and instagram as well so another group received invites for their 3s. Clearly positive news and lets hope the sequence continuous and numbers get up.

Adding all the information together: Large sightings of M3s, regular invitations to non employees, supplier comments and the negative sentiment in the press than I feel we may see more volatility on the upside soon.

Tesla sends out another batch of Model 3 configuration invites

 

[ValueAnalyst]

The median currently is 28,000:

2017 Q4 Deliveries

 

[bdy0627]

Chanos is a shrewd short seller not to be taken lightly. He is dangerous to TSLA. The shorts led by him did a real number on SCTY. I am now certain that SCTY would have gone bankrupt had not Elon stepped in, and it would have totally been because of the short attack. WS did quite a number on SCTY, demanding growth at any cost and then shutting off the debt spigot and instantly demanding a profitable business with the short dogs let loose simultaneously.

I am warily of the opinion that TSLA has weathered the storm that Chanos brought and that he will be moving on soon, to return when TSLA has had another great run and is looking peaked.

Lutz OTOH is like a circus clown. At the helm of the largest carmaker in the world as he rode it into ruin and bankruptcy, he now returns to let us know how good he is at counting beans and that TSLA does not make the cut. Please, he is the comic relief.

The other way of looking at it is that SCTY did not have a sound, sustainable business model. The shorts may have hastened its demise, but the end result was going to be the same regardless. I believe TSLA is far more dangerous for Chanos at this point than vice versa. A few years ago, the power was possibly more in his hands. He has a very large live grenade in his hand, pin pulled. For whatever reason, he is not willing to throw it. He just keeps holding it, pretending it's just a fake. Tick, tick, tick.

 

[RobStark]

He was chairman of board at via motors which as far as I can figure out has totally failed

Via Motors is not an automaker.

They are attempting to modify GM trucks with an extended range powertrain. Keeping the original V6 as generator.

And Lutz is a figurehead. I saw an interview in Jay Leno's garage where he did not know the kWh of the battery pack in the pickup truck.

He does some spokesperson work for Via. That is it.

 

[HG Wells]

I see the same, I'd be happy if we close on that

MAX PAIN was at $415 an hour ago.


Now it goes to 330 for today.
Am I jumping time lines without a functioning time machine ? IMPOSSIBLE !

Mod: politics deleted. -- ggr