I stated that there were two things. One was the gross margin did not include research and development and two that SG&A were high. You replied to my post stating that this did not account for dealership costs as if there were a third item. That is obviously not the case. It is just the two things that I stated in the original post.
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ValueAnalyst
Closed
Sure. Take it off, then add back the dealerships' gross margin, and operating margin, and net income margin.
Even better for Tesla.
Stop trolling unsuspecting people. I don't know how you sleep at night.
ValueAnalyst
Closed
He's just trolling you and wasting everyone's time. This is what they do.
ValueAnalyst
Closed
Exactly. All the FUDsters (I bet they're not even short the stock) do is misdirect discussion and waste everyone's time.
They are not here to learn or teach, they are here to destruct.
Zhelko Dimic
Careful bull
If you really cared, you'd dig it out yourself
mmd
Active Member
??? Do you have comprehension issues? SG&A high/low is immaterial. Part of the SG&A needs to be included in COGS to make gross margin comparison to other car makers.. I did not say it is a third item. That is irrelevant.
ValueAnalyst
Closed
This is another example of complete misdirection that is crystal clear to someone with accounting knowledge.
No company bulks SG&A into COGS. They are always separate.
SG&A includes expenses that are not costs directly related to revenues (such as Tesla stores, executive salaries etc).
COGS includes expenses that are directly related to manufacturing the product and some depreciation of factories etc.
FUDsters (don't call them shorts! because I suspect they are not short the stock in any meaningful way) are just trying to muddy the waters here.
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How about this "article" from Tesla's website:
Tesla - Statement of Beneficial Ownership
"The 8,167,544 shares of Issuer common stock were acquired by the reporting persons in a registered offering of common stock by the Issuer on March 17, 2017 and through open market purchases, for an aggregate purchase price of $1,777,842,836 (including commission)."
yes... I see the "and through open market purchases"... but like I said... Tesla was trading at $218 on Jan 3 and $261 on March 17th... so how is this not a discount when the avg is below the beginning of the quarter of which they were not an investor prior?
The problem is that the comp is not going to be straight forward for quite some time. Since Tesla is still expanding automotive platforms and segments as well as developing non-automotive products as well as taking on the dealership portion, sorting out what goes into what buckets for a straight comparison is difficult. Tesla is a fleeing automaker with one product that has seen a full development cycle.. 4-7 years and the Model S is now at 5, although once can argue that the vehicle has undergone a lot of R&D. The X is only at the end of year 2. Stationary storage is still a gelding market and the product lineup was just rev'ed. Most of the R&D is on products that aren't yet shipping... Model 3, solar roof, Tesla semi, and others. For major automakers, most are already competing in the market segments they are going to compete in in the near future. Most of their products are already on established cycles. Therefore the gross margin is not directly comparable, but doing the comparison is quite difficult.
Similarity, the assignment of profit and loss is also difficult. The core Model S and Model X business may be in far better shape than many of the critics that merely glance at the financials assume. We don't know how much of the R&D as well as the SG&A to apportion to the relatively mature Model S business, the new Model X business, the mature solar installation, the fledging stationary storage, solar panel and solar roof startup, the semi startup, and the automated driving startup. But clearly Tesla is managing the cash levels to be as aggressive as possible.
March 17 was the secondary offering. Of which, stock amounting to a few hundred million dollars was made available. The rest was convertible notes.
8.2 million shares does not add up to a few hundred million dollars.
Edit: Wait! Aren't you the guy always banging on about Tesla secondaries? This should be your thing...your area of expertise. Right?!
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ValueAnalyst
Closed
I have NEVER seen an example of what you said.
All I have seen is constant trolling and waste of time, hijacking of good quality discussion.
Don't let them ruin TMC as they ruined SeekingAlpha.
TrendTrader007
Active Member
Parisians seem to love their little bitty electric cars and scooters but surprisingly all over Paris did not see a single Tesla. I bet once M3 comes out there will be huge demand for Tesla there. I also realized that Americans work way too hard compared to the French who seem to take life at a much leisurely pace and seem much healthier and happier than us except for their damn smoking which I can not stand! I bet there is high incidence of Lung Cancer in Paris.
On a side note, as stated earlier I finally added to my position today after my last buy on May 30th and 31st. While it did bring up my cost basis by a few dollars I wanted to increase my position to as much as I can reasonably carry since I'm fully expecting a severe meltup in TSLA shares in short order. If you study the way super stocks move then TSLA chart is pretty much sticking to the script. There are numerous examples of stocks that double or triple in short order and TSLA is acting just like that on daily charts. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 50 to 80% rally from current level over the next 3 months or so. Regardless of the time frame if TSLA goes up by another 50 to 80% or so from here within this year then we're looking at $565 to $678. Actual numbers don't matter, my hypothesis is that if there is a sustained parabolic rise in a relatively short period of time then I'll sell everything, every last share and every last call and get the hell out of dodge for several days to weeks or even couple of months and then buy it back closer to a longer term moving average
Money for nothing and chicks for free
There is no glory in being ultra cautious when the Gods of stock market are smiling on you and wanna give you outstanding profits. Similarly there is no excuse for being super bullish at the end of a major move and giving up 40 to 90% of your profits (stock vs calls) . Only suckers do it
So I'm fearlessly bullish at this time with hugely leveraged portfolio but when the time comes I'll dump this thing like there is no tomorrow
And lots of us posting on this board will act as contrarian indicators
Right now I see more caution than unbridled enthusiasm
When every TDH and their cousin start singing praises of TSLA and extol their obscene paper profits then I'll sell
On a side note, as stated earlier I finally added to my position today after my last buy on May 30th and 31st. While it did bring up my cost basis by a few dollars I wanted to increase my position to as much as I can reasonably carry since I'm fully expecting a severe meltup in TSLA shares in short order. If you study the way super stocks move then TSLA chart is pretty much sticking to the script. There are numerous examples of stocks that double or triple in short order and TSLA is acting just like that on daily charts. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a 50 to 80% rally from current level over the next 3 months or so. Regardless of the time frame if TSLA goes up by another 50 to 80% or so from here within this year then we're looking at $565 to $678. Actual numbers don't matter, my hypothesis is that if there is a sustained parabolic rise in a relatively short period of time then I'll sell everything, every last share and every last call and get the hell out of dodge for several days to weeks or even couple of months and then buy it back closer to a longer term moving average
Money for nothing and chicks for free
There is no glory in being ultra cautious when the Gods of stock market are smiling on you and wanna give you outstanding profits. Similarly there is no excuse for being super bullish at the end of a major move and giving up 40 to 90% of your profits (stock vs calls) . Only suckers do it
So I'm fearlessly bullish at this time with hugely leveraged portfolio but when the time comes I'll dump this thing like there is no tomorrow
And lots of us posting on this board will act as contrarian indicators
Right now I see more caution than unbridled enthusiasm
When every TDH and their cousin start singing praises of TSLA and extol their obscene paper profits then I'll sell
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MMD/Myusername:
Both of you raise some great points and I'm going to sell my tesla holdings*
*said no one ever
Both of you raise some great points and I'm going to sell my tesla holdings*
*said no one ever
Well everyone would know now that the seats don't fold and that would be a make or break binary data point.
The 3 is simply way too good of a car to have anything derail it.
I mean 100k gives you a lot of alternatives in the ice world. A4 or 3 Series or Bolt?
Which one of those have super charging and Tesla BEV drive train and px2 drive unit again?
I personally feel the '3' will be well received and will sell very well.
That is my opinion but to say 'it is 'simply way to good of a car' sounds like you are stating a fact when (correct me if I am wrong) you and I have not seen the release vehicle, sat in it or driven it.
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Reciprocity
Active Member
Who the rat fu** cares, the stock is 377 going on 977. Tencent might as well be fittycent cuz they gonna pop a cap on the shorts ass by buying all the float.
Abu Dhabi sold its TSLA stock a while back -- notice that their last report was in 2012, and I just checked old news reports -- they did sell out.
Without them it only adds up to about 90% of shares outstanding on page one.
Susquehanna International Group is a quant and is messing around with puts and calls, not actual stock. Spreads it looks like (same for Citadel). Actuallly this is interesting because I now know who's most likely buying puts: Susquehanna, UBS, Barclays, Goldman Sachs, Citadel....
jhm
Well-Known Member
Reciprocity
Active Member
I'm beginning to think they are roommates and someone pissed in both their wheaties this evening when they finally rolled out their cots in Mom's basement at 9pm.
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