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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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enjoy your Semi :)
Ok, admittedly, the Semi would be outside of my flipping ability, mostly because I don't think that the SEMI target market will buy a gently used Semi truck from an individual.. I think their initial target market is the fleet market (retail distribution centers, etc.) as opposed to owner/operators which make up a good chunk of the market. So you got me there. :)
 
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Four hundred dollars or end of August, which ever comes first. That would be a ten bagger and a four bagger for us, and our crystal ball thinks that the market is going to crash in September. Right or wrong we plan to load up on June 2018's in October, and probably January 2020's in November.

Could you summarize why you expect a market crash in Sept? And why do you think Tesla would be affected by this? I don't want to get into too much detail on this in Market Action, but in short if you could please?
 
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Jonas: "competitive efforts from very large and well capitalized firms that will be making increasingly conspicuous efforts to encroach into Tesla’s territory of highly safe/automated and electric transport."

so we went from, 'Tesla's impossible mission to capitalize encroachment of the auto makers' -
to territory now belongs to Tesla - and the capital will be needed to take it back...
interesting how he doesn't reflect on his own words somehow--
 
Unbelievable, that Adam Jonas is using the Model 3 order rate right after the delivery event to project another 150k reservations over a quarter! This rate is highly unlikely to be sustained over a long period.

BTW, a question on the Kauai project. Tesla sold the batteries for Kauai project to Solarcity many quarters ago. How does it show up again in Q2 report?

Also, it seems Elon and Straubel bought solar roofs (likely just prototypes) to goose up the solar roof revenue and make nice headlines. Anyone knows how many total solar roofs were installed in total? Isn't this what's known as "self dealing"?

1: True, it may go up due to exposure.

2: It finished qualification. From investor letter that is available from ir.tesla.com: "including the 52 MWh Kauai, Hawaii, energy storage project that was installed in Q1 and passed inspection in Q2."

3: Might seem that way to you. It could also be that performing actual installations might be the best way to test a roofing product. Using a preexisting structure is more cost effective and faster than building a house for testing. Additionally, it reveals issues involved with a reroof vs new construction.
 
Screen Shot 2017-08-03 at 8.35.17 AM.png
Just reinforcing what Trendtrader007 said, you have the 50dma and the upper bb in proximity to each other and the price right now is trending towards this point. Some of the technical charts have updated the 50 day moving average and upper bollinger band already today, with the upper bb showing 347.39 on the attached chart, which is putting pressure on the SP to rise with the numbers. The good news is that the upper bb will be rising at a reasonable clip, which should give TSLA some headroom to rise, too.

Correction: I might have read the current stock price on the chart, rather than the upper bb number. Nonetheless, the concept is valid that the upper bb will be rising and it will give headroom for the SP to rise as well.
 
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Your comments above regarding Model Y margin is very important, and makes me consider if I should adjust my long-term Model Y gross margin assumption up from 20%. Especially given management's surprising Model 3 gross margin guidance, in addition to your input above, it may be wise for me to adjust it up to 25% (still relatively conservative but less so) from the 20% I had previously modeled.

One question for you: by how many quarters do you think the decision to use Model 3 platform to build Model Y will accelerate Model Y's arrival? For your reference, the previous guidance was late 2019 or early 2020, which is what I have modeled. I agree with you that pull-forward of Model Y cash flows would increase the intrinsic value of the company.
There have been a couple of thoughtful comments on this already. Realistically the Model Y production is likely to be in a new factory, perhaps with Tesla Semi and additional Model 3 capacity also. Moving Solar Roof production out of Fremont to Buffalo will give additional breathing space in Fremont, as well as the new buildings being built there, but my own goes is that the Model Y change to Model 3 platform will reduce launch risk, improve margins, reduce capex and speed ramp but probably launch date will remain more or less as predicted.

My logic in launch date is that:
1. the Model 3 rampup will continue to put huge systemic stress for the next year ("remember 'production hell');
2. Tesla Semi is being designed and is to be the next product launch. despite Model 3 base, this is NOT trivial!;
3. Rapid build and deployment in Tesla Energy also includes move from Fremont to Buffalo as well as industrial deployments;
4. The Model Y change to Model 3 platform is de-risking for sure, but still will be a demanding process;
5. The Shareholders Letter and discussion state that Model S and Model X are having continuing growth in demand. Meeting increased demand for those creates new production line complexity since they already are producing more than they had expected to do. That is also not trivial.

Putting those five factors in context suggests that the highest priority now is de-risking, de-risking everything. The optimism expressed by Elon seems to be the surprise that Model 3 is working out better than expected. Now the trick is to avoid returning to 'Hubris Extraordinaire'. In that respect Elon admitted that he was talked out of a new platform. That speaks to serious development of the Tesla management team. I don't want to minimize that point, perhaps the most important single point of the week. Tesla management is now capable of convincing Elon to choose lower-risk paths than he might intuitively favor.

Netting all that, I'll bet on Q3 overall gross margins dropping to ~20%, Q4 at ~22% and Q1-18 at ~25%. Despite GM impact of lower S model mix, and perhaps X too we can expect increased S and X volume to have positive GM impact.

I still am leery of estimating Model 3 rampup timing in 2018, thus cannot realistically estimate Model 3 contribution, even though I'm confident they'll meet the 25% GM on Model 3 during 2018. Given all the comments my personal guess is that supplier uncertainty is the missing input, rather than Tesla factory capability. Frankly, I suspect many of those new first class suppliers actually did not expect Tesla to meet the new aggressive plans, after all Tesla is famous for being late. This time, though, it seems quite different.
 
Oh, also, on the Supercharger front, every leak I've heard says that the leases or easements are mostly "peppercorn leases", no cash payment: the merchant gets paid in the form of patronage from visiting Tesla drivers. I think there are a few exceptions where they actually bought property, but in general the only opex on Superchargers is electricity and repairs. Both are negligible.
Sonny's BBQ in at least 1 place in Florida has Tesla chargers in Parking lot, only Tesla connectors. And fairly decent BBQ also!!, So if i have a choice where to stop and eat....food for car and me or just me?
 
Just a bit of cautionary advice -

Those of you who speculate about the price at which you'd be selling your shares:

Please remember there is a strong difference between musing "Gee, TSLA is $347 right now...if I awake tomorrow and find it at $1347, that's it! I'm selling!",

and

seeing a stock that's $1 higher today than it was y'day, and that one's y'day, and.....and soon enough, it's at $1,347 (or wherever) but that's only $1 higher than it had been the prior close.

Do you really think you'd sell? Remember: the next day it might be at $1348.

====>Frogs in boiling water aren't necessarily all short-sellers.<==========
 
Not sure what your definition of different production lines is, but I am sure that the line I saw less than 2 weeks ago had an X between each S.

Any chance you've seen Model 3 Body in White (BIW) assembly line in action? Nobody commented on it, but shareholder's letter has what appears to be a picture of M3. BIW assembly line in action. This is fairly substantial news, as during June 03 VIP tour this line was mostly, but not completely installed.

As for MX and MS, each has a separate BIW assembly line, but after bodies painted the final assembly is performed on common line.
 
Unbelievable, that Adam Jonas is using the Model 3 order rate right after the delivery event to project another 150k reservations over a quarter! This rate is highly unlikely to be sustained over a long period.

Solid logic. How come an ***absence*** of any meaningful reservations for Bolt did not prevent some posters to confidently discuss Bolt killing Model 3?
 
There have been a couple of thoughtful comments on this already. Realistically the Model Y production is likely to be in a new factory, perhaps with Tesla Semi and additional Model 3 capacity also. Moving Solar Roof production out of Fremont to Buffalo will give additional breathing space in Fremont, as well as the new buildings being built there, but my own goes is that the Model Y change to Model 3 platform will reduce launch risk, improve margins, reduce capex and speed ramp but probably launch date will remain more or less as predicted.

My logic in launch date is that:
1. the Model 3 rampup will continue to put huge systemic stress for the next year ("remember 'production hell');
2. Tesla Semi is being designed and is to be the next product launch. despite Model 3 base, this is NOT trivial!;
3. Rapid build and deployment in Tesla Energy also includes move from Fremont to Buffalo as well as industrial deployments;
4. The Model Y change to Model 3 platform is de-risking for sure, but still will be a demanding process;
5. The Shareholders Letter and discussion state that Model S and Model X are having continuing growth in demand. Meeting increased demand for those creates new production line complexity since they already are producing more than they had expected to do. That is also not trivial.

Putting those five factors in context suggests that the highest priority now is de-risking, de-risking everything. The optimism expressed by Elon seems to be the surprise that Model 3 is working out better than expected. Now the trick is to avoid returning to 'Hubris Extraordinaire'. In that respect Elon admitted that he was talked out of a new platform. That speaks to serious development of the Tesla management team. I don't want to minimize that point, perhaps the most important single point of the week. Tesla management is now capable of convincing Elon to choose lower-risk paths than he might intuitively favor.

Netting all that, I'll bet on Q3 overall gross margins dropping to ~20%, Q4 at ~22% and Q1-18 at ~25%. Despite GM impact of lower S model mix, and perhaps X too we can expect increased S and X volume to have positive GM impact.

I still am leery of estimating Model 3 rampup timing in 2018, thus cannot realistically estimate Model 3 contribution, even though I'm confident they'll meet the 25% GM on Model 3 during 2018. Given all the comments my personal guess is that supplier uncertainty is the missing input, rather than Tesla factory capability. Frankly, I suspect many of those new first class suppliers actually did not expect Tesla to meet the new aggressive plans, after all Tesla is famous for being late. This time, though, it seems quite different.

I agree with most of this post and also am not planning for a Model Y launch date earlier than late 2019/early 2020 (unless Tesla says otherwise).

I also agree that de-risking is a priority.

BUT, I don't think de-risking will trump the Company's main goal of accelerating the transition to a sustainable future, and even if tempered by others in management I have little doubt that Elon's risk appetite and tolerance will continue to be much higher than most investors. I believe Elon will continue pushing forward on multiple paths simultaneously very aggressively because that is what is needed to "accelerate the advent of sustainable energy."

This will not be an investment for the faint of heart for many years IMO. Which is fine by me.:)
 
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(ref. #15831) Please try not to goad others into violating NDAs....

I don't think I am trying to do this.

Note that a picture of functioning M3 BIW line was included in the shareholder's letter. So as far as I am concerned my question is about confirming information which is already publicly available.
 
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Any chance you've seen Model 3 Body in White (BIW) assembly line in action? Nobody commented on it, but shareholder's letter has what appears to be a picture of M3. BIW assembly line in action. This is fairly substantial news, as during June 03 VIP tour this line was mostly, but not completely installed.
Tesla made rather effective use of curtains in areas. Also wouldn't be able to say much about it.

As for MX and MS, each has a separate BIW assembly line, but after bodies painted the final assembly is performed on common line.
Yes, so a significant amount of assembly is indeed on one shared line.
 
Some of us believe firmly in the ethical code of justice which says that those who seek to do evil to humanity or to the world should be executed and their heads should be set up on pikes as warnings to others. What was that you were saying about being a "better person"? Were you saying that we should aspire to make malicious TSLA disinformation-spreading short-sellers go bankrupt and die in ditches as cautionary tales for others who might consider the path of evil? ;):D
When I was about 20 I started to trt to figure out what I wanted to achieve in my life (over a couple of years):
1. I considered getting married, having kids, a job, a house and a couple of cars, a few weeks of vacation each year and I thought no, there has to be more than that!
2. I decided that everyone wants to be happy, even someone like mother Teresa who gets happiness from helping others. I decided that I wanted to be happy too.

3. I was fortunate that when I fell in love I'd feel intoxicated in that love. I decided that feeling came from inside of me and that it was possible to feel that all the time for everyone. I made that my life's goal. It's embarrassing how little progress I've made, but I feel extremely fortunate that I had that understanding, and that I have tried to do that. Even trying to accomplish that has been a huge blessing in my life because I've definitely made more progress than I would have if I hadn't tried.

So my opinion is that it doesn't make sense to our own hearts with ugly feelings because someone else " deserves it ".

I believe that most of us can do better than having bad feelings for shorts, if we understand the benefits of doing that. Just because someone else is foolish enough to pollute their hearts with ugly feelings doesn't mean that we have to fall into the trap of making the same mistake in response.
 
I believe that most of us can do better than having bad feelings for shorts, if we understand the benefits of doing that. Just because someone else is foolish enough to pollute their hearts with ugly feelings doesn't mean that we have to fall into the trap of making the same mistake in response.

Let's get back on topic, please.

SP staying in the 344-350 range.
 
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Good morning everyone. Did y'all sleep like a baby?

I'm interested in learning people's "I would definitely sell majority of my stake at this price." by year-end 2017 and year-end 2018.

If you'd like to share, please also provide your math/reasoning behind your price targets.
If I were younger, I would hold the stock as long as it looks like Tesla is going to be a very rapidly growing company. As it is, I may start withdrawing gradually each month within the next three or four years.
 
I really like how some analysts keep on mentioning the intensifying competition from traditional car manufacturers with deep pockets. As if they all could just develop a great product in no time together with production line and supply chain and so on like a magician pulls out a white rabbit out of a hat. Over the years (almost decades) this story has gotten weaker and weaker and very old.
And once there is some news and Mercedes pulls the plug and stops production of both their Smart and B-Class EVs nobody wants to mention this?!
Honestly?
Might they not mention this information simply because this fact does not fit their tale?
I mean seriously?!

Deep pockets are great and all, but there is a major issue if you dont know what to spend it on. The competition flat out does not have the technology and have not been doing any real serious work on it. LG and Samsung are not breaking ground an $5B battery factories for cars either, so they wont be bailed out by them on the Cells. Germany just announced a massive 35GWh factory for batteries for storage first then auto later, it breaks ground just before 2020 and will not be at full capacity until 2028. No matter how much money you have, you cannot buy time and somethings just take time. It takes 6 years to develop a completely new car from nothing, even for the big guys. And no amount of money can speed that up because you just dont have the people, and things like testing takes time as a major component of the test. You can only speed things up so much with massive amounts of money, ask Tesla. They decided to accelerate things a year ago and its cost billions, but Tesla has already bit the bullet and they are coming out the other side of that already. The other manufactures have not started. And they are not even close to starting based on this recent announcement out of Germany. To put this into context, they will start in late 2019 (really 2020) and get to where Gigafactory1 will be in 2018 by 2028.. that is 10 years behind. In that 10 years, Tesla will have 3-5 more combined battery+auto factories strategically throughout the world. I agree that competition is coming, but they are going to be fighting for the low margin scraps as Tesla will dominate the market from the top down. I dont believe Tesla will ever make a $20k car, though in 10 years, maybe VW will make one with 5% GM.
 
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