racer26
Active Member
They must not have made it onto the market yet... volume's only at just over 1M right now.
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racer26
Active Member
Either that, or Fidelity just arbitrarily decided to make them unavailable without them having been borrowed.
As expected, heavy shorting is seen at Fidelity, with at least 568k shares shorted by 10:17am.
Going to be kind of cute if Tencent vacuuming up these shorted shares and complementing short sellers for keeping their average buy-in price in check...
Going to be kind of cute if Tencent vacuuming up these shorted shares and complementing short sellers for keeping their average buy-in price in check...
This is what always gives me pause on the value of tracking the shares available. Do we have any evidence that Fidelity isn't just adjusting the availability for whatever reason?
racer26
Active Member
I mean, volume's up around 200k since we noticed those 600k shares go unavailable. Its possible they were actually shorted and are trickling out in bunches, facing buying pressure headwinds, but that would indicate a short that isn't doing what we've seen before, dumping big piles of shares to the market in a hurry to attempt to induce panic-selling by longs.
EDIT: Basically, I'm not sure of the value of the data in terms of basing theories on it, I think there is definitely some amount of Fidelity just adjusting the value arbitrarily for whatever reason (else why would there be discontinuities in the availability number each morning?) I think there is *some* value in it, as a window into the short activity intraday.
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OK, dumb-ass question... Does buying a stock short automatically put downward pressure on the SP? If so, how? Surely they're just betting the price will go down, not actually influencing it?
I've been on this thread (and the 'other'), and I still don't really understand it...
They don't "buy" a stock short; they "sell" it short. Short sellers borrow shares and immediately sell them. Selling shares whether by longs or shorts normally puts downward pressure on the price.
racer26
Active Member
Buying long, or selling short, with a market order means that you will buy or sell the shares at the current bid or ask price.
At any given time, the market is essentially made up of a stack of limit orders where various parties have a certain number of shares they're willing to buy or sell at a given price. If you want to buy say 1000 shares at market, and the current sell orders on the books are for 100 shares at 279, 200 shares at 280, and 700 shares at 281, then your buy order will move the current price from 279 to 281.
The same works in reverse when selling. Doesn't really matter whether you're selling a long or short position, selling puts downward pressure on the price, buying puts upward pressure.
jeewee3000
Active Member
When a stock is sold "short" by investors, the stock price tends to go down like with any sale of the stock.
When that investor covers that position, by buying shares to retire his short position, the stock price should go up - like when people purchase the stock regularly.
This is of course theory. The influence on the stock price depends largely on the amount of shares shorted or covered. Higher short interest (usually compared to the float) has a larger impact on sthe stock price.
You know, you might be right. I tentatively concluded that with very small retail ownership and several "hold forever" institutions, Fidelity was probably the main source of liquidity for short-sellers. They're quite capable of actually controlling the liquidity for short-sellers all by themselves. This puts short-sellers in an even worse position than they would be in if the liquidity was from the "broader market".
You're welcome. You properly referred to downward or "selling pressure". I'll take a moment to note that some other posters here have occasionally referred to something they call "buying pressure". The financial industry has long used the terms "selling pressure" and "buying interest", never "buying pressure".
Mike Smith
Active Member
It should be noted that the borrowed shares don't have to be sold immediately, even though they're paying interest. For instance whoever borrowed the 550,000 shares this morning is obviously selling them throughout today, weighing TSLA down. In fact next time I see a massive order like that I'm buying some weekly puts right away. Even today we could easily go down another $4-5 with so many shares borrowed and waiting to be sold. Of course they all have to be bought back eventually..
Paracelsus
Active Member
I am hoping Tencent will be buying every one of those 550,000 shares today and holding them long. I believe other large companies will follow the example of Tencent since there is really very few places to invest money at the moment other than in other growth companies. The result is that short sellers are simply borrowing shares to sell into big long positions, which will continue to drive the price upwards. That is the irony - that the frigging shorts are driving the stock price UP. After Tencent announced their 5% position it became clear that steady accumulation by a single entity was the catalyst for much of the recent run up. Imagine that run up on steroids because other large investors jumped in to follow. Pretty soon the only shares for sale are the ones the shorts borrowed. Not only will they get hammered, but at some point this could put and shares in a lending program at risk of not being replaced and simply cashed out.
IIRC he buys puts. Mentioned somewhere a while back.
???are you talking some shares "defaulted"? or similar (confused i am)
(newbie question)(were some words left out?)
We are touching on the daily and the monthly. I think we walk up the band(s). It looks more obvious on the daily, because the upper band is already rising, but we are almost at the end of the month, so if buying interest remains firm, it should force the monthly bands wider and we will have a rising upper monthly band. If I'm not mistaken, a close at or around these levels would also be an all-time high close on a monthly basis.
Daily
Monthly
BluestarE3
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