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2017 Investor Roundtable: TSLA Market Action

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I'm not at all talking about market spin. The very core of the Tesla brand is delivering innovative and compelling products. It is not spin to have a public event that reveal what this car and hense what the brand is really about. If your going to have such public events, then you need to be sure that the optics are right. Otherwise you undermine the perception about what the car and brand are about.

Would you prefer that Tesla not have public unveilings, handovers and other events? What purpose do you think they serve? Is it important that they are done well? Or is it all just a waste of time, money, and public attention?

I just don't think it matters who the first 30 people are to get the car. I'm sure we won't know most of them, so what does it matter? As long as they are happy to get their cars, and, most importantly, the cars are good. The Tesla brand should be about delivering compelling products of good quality, for whatever market they target, full stop.
 
I personally think more than the Model 3 helping it is the decline in QoQ S&X deliveries that is hurting us. This is the first true indication of the demand ceiling on the S&X (cap at 22-25k/quarter). The early units of the M3 will have much lower margins than S&X so that takes some positivity away from it.
The next major catalyst should be when the production of M3 ramps up to arnd 1000/wk. Tesla Energy positive news should help along the way but do not see that as a major catalyst. On the downside, Q2 financials would be another selling event. Short term is tricky but long term remains as promising as always.
 
Just want to say I like how you gents put words to (digital) paper.

Is it bad sign I bought 50 shares just a couple of weeks ago at an average price of 380 and I didn't feel compelled at all to sell today? :cool:

This has been one of those days where I cant remember what I wrote, vs what I thought about writing. This is my thought on the last couple of weeks:

1) This all started a couple of weeks ago when someone came out and said Techs had to high of valuations. This started a rotation out of tech that seemed to pull Tesla along with the Nasdaq only because Tesla was up 5x the Nasdaq, it was going down 3x as much.
2) Sold the news. It appears when the model 3 came out ahead of schedule, many sold the news.
3) Tesla announced delivering just over 22k cars for just over 47k cars for 1H 2018 which was inline with the lower end of guidance. Mind you that Bears didnt believed they would hit within 10000 cars of the low end, and frankly they where over 10,000 below the top line of guidance for the whole year in 2016. To me, hitting 47,100ish cars was about what I expected, because I trust Tesla to hit their numbers now.
4) GS seemed to jump on this to say that demand was for S/X was down. Even though Tesla qualified the lower deliveries to issues with a new system for packing cells. This reminds me of something Elon said I believe at the Barrons event. When he said that cost savings came from the Cells, but also from the pack. The 100KWh packs are different then their predecessors, Someone, I think @wk001 tore down a P100D pack and noticed that the cooling was much different allowing for a tighter packed package which allowed for 100KWh. My point is that resolving an issue to automate the packaging for 100KWh packs should have been seen by knowledgeable people as being friggin awesome, they instead interpreted this as a drop in demand. On what planet is successfully overcoming some initial issues and automating the most expensive part of the most expensive model mean that demand has gone down? Its beyond simplistic thinking. This is also after a Q2-2017 over Q2-2016 gain of 53% in deliveries, even with issues. Need I even mention that this extremely high margin 100KWh pack did not exist in Q2-2016? Or that it enables the longest range EV on the planet by like a lot. Did I mention its high margin?

Demand is not down, this is fiction and based on absolutely 0 facts. Does Tesla want to sell some model 3 reservation holders an S? Absolutely. Will they, Absolutely. Just like future model 3 owners will want an S/X as their next car. Is model X suffering from a demand issue? Man, they just finally caught up with the original reservations backlog and someone thinks there is a demand issue, on what planet? Elon literally was shaking his head in disbelief when he stated model 3 reservations keep coming in, ever week there are more. I just read an article on Slurping Alphalfa about model 3 reservations dropping like a rock. Certainly proved his point with some very doubious math and logic, but he was a green person who wants to see the EV succeed while shorting TSLA. They literally moved up the release and volume production of the Model 3 and GF1 by as much as 18 months. You know the thing that was beyond impossible that is actually happening in 23 days? And this makes you want to sell the news?

In short, Tesla is and will be Supply constrained for the next 2-5 years. The high end of the range because it will depend on the Y and how quickly they can ramp. The fact is that they might never catch up to demand, which is why I think the price for a Tesla will always be high, just like an Iphone. But profits will also be high. Let someone else lose money making EVs, Tesla needs capital for expansion. I expect Tesla to improve the offerings but not lower the prices, more value for the dollar but not less dollars. You see it today with faster 0-60 from better inverter/motors. Never forget that the Model 3 is not 2 weeks ahead of schedule, its 18 months and 2 weeks ahead of schedule. Yes Elon talks a lot of crap, but he also delivers the impossible about every 6 months, so cut him some slack.

Anyway.. GLTA, long and strong! Embrace the FUD, it is your friend!

For those seeing red, review July 2015, and 14. Last summer 2016 was skewed by the SolarCity/Tesla merg.

Then toss in articles like this one Why gas-powered cars aren't going away (SOS)
and remember Fossil Fuels will not give an inch. Rational thinkers come to their own conclusions in their own time. Me, I came to my own rational conclusion years ago. I do not routinely have money just laying around to gamble with, so I am not a day trader.

Volvo lost me after three new cars with maintenance on the last one costing $2K every other year. There comes a time to release your old baggage, now is the time to let go of your ICE vehicle. Most of us here could easily buy the MS, MX or M3; but refuse to jump out of a perfectly good airplane (ICE):) If my wife can do a zipline in Costa Rica; you can go all electric ~ she did a fantastic job at 66 ~ last summer during the merg!

I waited until the price hit $65 a share because I thought it would level off (traded shell for Tesla one for one). Bought some more at $150 a share because I knew it would continue to grow. Nothing has rationally convinced my limited critical thinking skill to believe this company is going anywhere but up ~ thank you very much:)

I did not say this stock was for the lighthearted by any stretch of the imagination ~ you just need one (imagination):)

I am a long horn bull:)
 
So you don't believe the battery production issues on the 100 packs are real?

I believe they are real but not convinced even in the absence of this problem the deliveries could have crossed 25k. Elon is very careful with his wording and the Q2 release said June orders were 'one' of the best in Tesla's history (not 'the' best). Also no mention of cars in transit. This combined with guidance of the about 50k deliveries in H2, I think 25k/quarter is the peak (unless new markets with the China factory or India are expanded into).

But this was about expected. I remember one of Elon's talks in the annual shareholders meeting (I think 2013) where he predicted S to peak in about 4 years and mentioned bringing a major design refresh at that point.
 
I believe they are real but not convinced even in the absence of this problem the deliveries could have crossed 25k. Elon is very careful with his wording and the Q2 release said June orders were 'one' of the best in Tesla's history (not 'the' best). Also no mention of cars in transit. This combined with guidance of the about 50k deliveries in H2, I think 25k/quarter is the peak (unless new markets with the China factory or India are expanded into).

But this was about expected. I remember one of Elon's talks in the annual shareholders meeting (I think 2013) where he predicted S to peak in about 4 years and mentioned bringing a major design refresh at that point.

Why wasn't every freaking out when heals guided to 47k on the low end 5 months ago? I mean they got their guidance. The range is for best and worst case, battery issues caused the worst case. My guess is that they new that the 100kwh would require adjustments to the processes for assembly because they are packages differently from smaller packs. How quickly we forget they missed guidance on the low end for all of 2016 and they are 53% over that today. Where people claiming demand was down in 2016?

There is a false narrative the demand is lagging and it's being assumed based on deliveries. Demand still out paces supply, by how much though no one knows.
 
Today shorts put out a lot of articles and posts to push TSLA lower. I guess they simultaneously tried to short more stocks, bought more Puts to keep the ball rolling. Most of us are very familiar with how they play this game. I think technical chart played a big role in the recent pullback, maybe I should say shorts saw the chart setup, they jumped onto the opportunity and helped to made it happen.

Shorts stressed a few points repeatedly, I will add my thoughts to each of their points:

1. "Model S/X have reached demand plateau."

I basically agree with shorts on this. The global demand for $80k car is limited. I don't expect high growth in this area year after year. In my spreadsheet, I estimate Tesla will be selling 100,000 S/X in year 2025 and 2030, average selling price $80k. That's $8B revenue, $0.8B net earnings. But in my same spreadsheet, in 2026, S/X only accounts for 1.1% of Tesla's revenue and earnings. The rest of the earnings will come from the network, model Y, model 3, pickup truck, semi, and energy division. So whether the future S/X demand will be 50k a year or 500k a year, doesn't make much difference.

2. "Competition is coming. Volvo is adding electric motors to all it's future vehicles. Dozens of EV models coming from all the major car companies."

It seems to me shorts have a hard time to understand what's happening. More and more ICE manufactures realize they can't compete with EVs. They are planing to switch to EVs too. The demand for EVs will soon reach 20 million a year, then suddenly no more demand for ICEs. An analogy I want to use is when iPhone came out, Apple shorts argued that smart phone was only 1% of phone market, and intense competition was coming. They failed to recognize that iPhone was better than old phones, so the addressable market was the entire phone market.

3. "Other companies will win the races, no mater it's self-driving, better EV, ride sharing, precision map, charging network... anything you can think of, Tesla will always lose."

When I study competition, I try to study what they plan to do, and also what they have done. Tesla as a team has demonstrated amazing determination and capabilities, it's a magnitude higher than everyone else. Why do shorts think weaker players will win, that I can never understand.

Regarding the price movement. I try not to predict the near term. I use a buy and hold approach + small portion for swing trading. No margin. My swing trading is strictly buy low sell high (based on intrinsic value and technical indicators). All trading profits go to long term holding at good entry points. I hate it if I buy high sell low, I view that as helping the shorts.

 
At this rate of -$25/day, I will be staying on the sideline for the next 13 trading days, and will come back on trading day 14, when TSLA becomes penny stock, and will buy as much shares as I could afford, then appoint myself as one of the board of director!

Problem for your possible board position I am afraid::eek:

If what you say is true many here will jump in on the twelfth day and buy up all the shares.

Not sure of your qualifications but you may not get shareholder support for your board position ;)
 
Is it bad sign I bought 50 shares just a couple of weeks ago at an average price of 380 and I didn't feel compelled at all to sell today?
I bought at ~$265 well over a year ago and it promptly dropped to $200, and eventually ~$180 and now is well above my purchase price. I'm was not at all worried then and you shouldn't be now.
 
Time for a motivational image.

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Soon the shorts won't have two legs to stand on.
 
From the tone of Andrew Left, I guess most of the sellers today are short sellers. It is a well coordinated bear raid.

It could be a wishful thinking on my part, but I sincerely hope it is a bear trap.

I was happy to see the Fast Money host go after him about how the shorting 'now' thesis is any different than when he shorted (and lost) before.:cool:
 
Today's CNBC Fast Money discussion: Tesla and Citron short

Why Tesla is short seller Andrew Left's new target

These shorts must be bald from literally pulling their hair out. His tone and demeanor....claiming the bull case for Tesla is like a religion that is doomed to fail (which by historical performance in the stock is obviously wrong)? The only people I see acting in a cult like manner are the shorts, because their arguments fail a basic logic test. They have to have some cultish motivation. I thought shorts just suffered from a severe case of innovator's dilemma, but this guy proved to me they have a ton more issues going on I don't care to ever understand. Go ahead, short the stock. I'll keep buying and holding what they're selling.

I can't help but think of shorts, like Left, as Griff Tannen and his blood line from the Back to the Future trilogy. They may gain something short term, but they always end up with a mouthful of manure.
 
Crash tests raise questions about safety of Tesla Model S
A new set of crash tests by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety questions Tesla's claim that the Model S is the safest car in history.

In fact, the person who oversaw the Model S crash tests tells CNBC, "If you're looking for top-line safety, we believe there are other, better choices than the Model S."
 
I was happy to see the Fast Money host go after him about how the shorting 'now' thesis is any different than when he shorted (and lost) before.:cool:

And his tone responding to the host was exasperated. Forget about anything else he was uttering, he is simply delusional with what he sees the fair value of Tesla's auto business is. He will continue to lose money shorting Tesla - talking about investing (as in shorting) in a dream...
 
Yes, definitely a coordinated bear attack. Shorting now makes sense because the short trading day on Monday gave the shorts the opportunity to create the momentum for a what we see today. Add in GS piping in their "superstar" analyst to exert their influence on the market. The momo market traders will see the signs and follow it. All the stop losses will trigger and exacerbate it. Hitting moving averages will set up the algobots to keep it going.

Left's regurgitated rationale (as pointed out by the Fast Money hosts) is just to pull in retail shorts so they can boost their numbers and continue the momentum and keep the technicals in their court. Kind of a reverse "fundamental" rationale to be long a stock. If he was honest about it, he should have just said the technicals are there.

I think one of the reasons why we saw an overall gain in NASDAQ, except TSLA is this coordinated attack. NVDA should have kept going down, but instead is forming a reversal pattern. Same with lots of other NASDAQ, tech stocks.

What is needed, ultimately, is what NASDAQ and I believe NYSE CEO's have pointed out. There needs to be greater disclosure of shorts in the marketplace. Right now shorting hedge funds can get away with "decline to disclose" to the SEC, whereas long positions/funds are disclosed (look up Kynikos funds on Edgar, only fund where we can see Chanos' positions is the long fund). For all we know, GS probably has a large short position and since they are under no obligation to disclose, can use their analyst and bully pulpit to sway the market. Then we can see how solid that "Chinese wall" truly is. Everyone cries foul when the analyst gives a good rating and the banks/brokers are long the stock, but we can't say anything if they keep pumping out poor ratings since they are under no obligation to report a short position. IMHO, let's truly level the playing field. SEC really needs to stop letting these funds get away with "decline to disclose".

That being said, if they keep shorting now, I'll keep buying. So some would argue that I really shouldn't complain.
 
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