2019 Jaguar iPace speculation

[Blu Angel]

Hi Tesla Lovers,

I decided to visit my Jaguar dealership in Toronto, Canada yesterday.
I've been smitten by the Jaguar iPace and would consider swapping my Tesla 3 for it.
I believe it straddles the market between Model 3 and Tesla Model X

Here's what info I gleamed from the dealer.....
Construction begins at Magna's plant in Austria this March 2018 (3.5 months away)
There are 25,000 worldwide reservations with deposits.
Canadian dealer is asking for $5,000 up front
Magna Steyr factory will build 15,000 iPace per year.
Battery capacity is 90KwH
No Supercharger network available

FUZZY FACTS
1. Cdn price from $80,000 - $120,000
not sure how many battery versions
2. Deposit is only refundable if pricing is totally out of whack
3. This Jag dealer honored initial MSRP when Jag Canada decided price increase necessary
when F Pace model unveiled

Leasing & Financing deals

Lease Deal
Deposit: $5,000
Lease $1600 Cdn (tax incl) @ 48 months
Optional Buyback at lease expiration: $40,000
Total lease payments: $76,800 + $5,000 deposit = $81,600
Total Lease payments with BB option: $121,600

Purchase Deal
Deposit: $5,000
Finance $1700 Cdn (tax incl) @ 72 months
Buyback: Zero dollars......Its mine
Total Purchase payments: $122,400 + $5,000= $127,400

I decided to sit on the fence until further information is available

1. What charging network will be available?
Is a Tesla supercharger network deal in the works?
This would definitely get me on board (deal breaker)
2. Actual pricing for finance and lease deals

Let's get the Tesla community to voice some opinions!

 

[JoaoD]

If access to Tesla Supercharger network is a deal breaker for you get a Tesla. There is no comparable network at the moment, and there won't be another from night to day.
As far as I know there is no easy way to use Supercharger network in non Teslas, and there is no plan to support other brands, as of now.

 

[T34ME]

I am opposed to Jaguar or any car company using the Tesla SuperCharger system. With over 500K model 3 hitting the roads within a couple of years, the SC system will be at capacity without adding additional manufacturers. However if Jaguar wants to invest in several hundred new Jaguar branded SC locations in North America (they won't) then perhaps a mutual use deal could be negotiated. This is why there will be no "Tesla Killer" until a manufacturer invests in the infrastructure of a SC system comparable to Tesla. These 'late to the party' EV manufacturers are putting the cart (car) before the horse (SC system). They will never be a viable alternative other than an expensive around town car that charges (slowly) at home until they are willing to spend the money on a comprehensive charging system.

At $120K, why would you buy an iPace when you can get a Model X for the same price? I don't see the iPace as a bridge between model 3 and model X.

 

[JGInnovation]

Unfortunately the iPace only has 50kW fast charging and a not very useful fast charging network. It's a nice but expensive secondary car or city car.

 

[Jeff N]

Unfortunately the iPace only has 50kW fast charging and a not very useful fast charging network.

You’re not saying the car itself is limited 50 kW, or are you? That would be extremely unlikely.

Even the “old” CCS standard supports charging at up to 500V at 200A or a 100 kW theoretical rate (75-80 kW realistically). It seems likely that the car is actually designed for charging at currents higher than 200A and would adhere to the newly updated CCS protocol and electrical specs that allow up to 350A thus matching what existing installed Tesla Superchargers can do. I assume Jaguar has stated actual charging rate details yet.

So, the real issue is probably not the car but rather the existing installed base of CCS chargers. There are no public CCS chargers in North America capable of more than 125A today although that will begin to change before the first iPace is delivered to a customer. A coast-to-coast network of 350A CCS charging locations should be up and running within about 3 years. Most EV owners live on the east and west coast and those areas should have good interstate coverage with 350A CCS within a couple of years (within a year of many early iPace deliveries).

 

[Merrill]

Up until I bought my first Tesla I was a Jaguar owner starting in 1970, I love the prototype of the ipace but with the Tesla superchargers would rather keep my two Tesla’s. Down the road with the installation of the DCFC charging it would make going on trips with any other BEV easier. It will be interesting to see the base price of the ipace.

 

[JGInnovation]

You’re not saying the car itself is limited 50 kW, or are you? That would be extremely unlikely.

Even the “old” CCS standard supports charging at up to 500V at 200A or a 100 kW theoretical rate (75-80 kW realistically). It seems likely that the car is actually designed for charging at currents higher than 200A and would adhere to the newly updated CCS protocol and electrical specs that allow up to 350A thus matching what existing installed Tesla Superchargers can do. I assume Jaguar has stated actual charging rate details yet.

So, the real issue is probably not the car but rather the existing installed base of CCS chargers. There are no public CCS chargers in North America capable of more than 125A today although that will begin to change before the first iPace is delivered to a customer. A coast-to-coast network of 350A CCS charging locations should be up and running within about 3 years. Most EV owners live on the east and west coast and those areas should have good interstate coverage with 350A CCS within a couple of years (within a year of many early iPace deliveries).

According to Electrek's article it is limited to 50kW. Hopefully it's wrong, because it's a really bad design tradeoff that will hurt their EV efforts going forward.

 

[Bill33525]

The article says "That fast-charging is still based on a 50 kW charger, according to a press release."
Does not say "LIMITED" says "based on a 50 kW charger". More news should be forth coming soon.

 

[Tiger]

Actually, on average, Tesla Supercharger (effective, throttled, dependent on soc) charging rate is not much over CCS 50kW.

 

[Adm]

Autovolt's Jonathan Musk (not related as far as I know) says he's been told 150 kW CSS max charging power by Jaguar's lead engineer.

Jonathan Musk on Twitter

 

[JGInnovation]

Well that's good news! It's then a reasonable option in places that will have a good CSS charging network

 

[Blu Angel]

Thx Tesla aficionados for your replies.

My rebuttal: I'm keeping my Tesla 3!
It will probably cost me $70,000 Cdn including AWD and PUP

If access to Tesla Supercharger network is a deal breaker for you get a Tesla. There is no comparable network at the moment, and there won't be another from night to day.
As far as I know there is no easy way to use Supercharger network in non Teslas, and there is no plan to support other brands, as of now.

Thanks for clearing this up.....Tesla SC network is the ONLY one.
No deal until there is further info from Jaguar

I am opposed to Jaguar or any car company using the Tesla SuperCharger system. With over 500K model 3 hitting the roads within a couple of years, the SC system will be at capacity without adding additional manufacturers. However if Jaguar wants to invest in several hundred new Jaguar branded SC locations in North America (they won't) then perhaps a mutual use deal could be negotiated. This is why there will be no "Tesla Killer" until a manufacturer invests in the infrastructure of a SC system comparable to Tesla. These 'late to the party' EV manufacturers are putting the cart (car) before the horse (SC system). They will never be a viable alternative other than an expensive around town car that charges (slowly) at home until they are willing to spend the money on a comprehensive charging system.

At $120K, why would you buy an iPace when you can get a Model X for the same price? I don't see the iPace as a bridge between model 3 and model X.

What a great idea!
Jaguar could agree to a mutual use agreement if they invest in x number of Jag branded SC!
This would help both Tesla and Jaguar owners by increasing the total number of SUperchargers.

Autovolt's Jonathan Musk (not related as far as I know) says he's been told 150 kW CSS max charging power by Jaguar's lead engineer.

Jonathan Musk on Twitter

Wouldn't that be peachy keen!

My final anecdote.
I believe that Tesla is secretly speaking (behind the scenes) with various Automobile manufacturers
It would give instant credibility to such niche players as Aston Martin, Volvo and Jaguar
Let em build their own branded SC stations that the whole Tesla family could share.
Win, win all around!

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Well that's good news! It's then a reasonable option in places that will have a good CSS charging network

In most places that will mean you're relegated to 50kW (and less) charging, as that's what most CCS stations are wired for. Maybe by 2020 there will be more useable CCS charging infrastructure above 50kW. Unfortunately, there will be a lot more vehicles on the road competing for said chargers.

 

[T34ME]

My final anecdote.
I believe that Tesla is secretly speaking (behind the scenes) with various Automobile manufacturers
It would give instant credibility to such niche players as Aston Martin, Volvo and Jaguar
Let em build their own branded SC stations that the whole Tesla family could share.
Win, win all around!

I believe this is Elon's plan. Get everyone on board with the same charging standard, agree on a number every manufacturer would be responsible for (based on number of EV builds), and then have everyone share in the common utility. I can see a future where we have SCs every 10 or 20 miles along major thoroughfares with different manufacturers names on them (sort of like branded gasoline). Although range anxiety is now mostly a thing of the past, this type of SC system will certainly put any doubt to rest. The door to the future is now only cracked open just bit to get a glimpse. The best is yet to come!

 

[Lokolo]

There is already a thread running on the i-pace.

Jaguar I-Pace

However a couple of things to note

- Pricing was originally going to be 20% above their equivalent f-pace, announcement in March 2018 as mentioned earlier
- Jaguar are working with charging infrastructure companies (Chargemaster in the UK)
- You can charge up to 150kW, although currently Tesla SC seem to be one of the few (only) charging infrastructures above 50kW

 

[R.S]

There was some pricing "leaked", price in the NL is said to be around 82k, which is pretty good. 95% of a Model S 75D and range is said to be 543 km on the notoriously optimistic NEDC, about as much as a XP100D.

Now if they also have access to 150 kW charging and keep that price difference in Germany, I might be tempted to replace our Model S with an iPace and our Audi with a Model 3. But this decision will have to wait another 10 months, so Tesla has some time to respond ;-)