2019 Model X P100D no dual charger

[Bill Price]

Except that's not what the ratings are for. AWG 4 is rated for 60Amp PEAK, but only 48Amp CONTINUOUS. AWG 6 is rated for less than that, so using it would not be considered safe per code since the charger would draw 48Amp CONTINUOUS.

I have no idea where your information is coming from, but to be succinct, it is wrong.

• Ampacity is the MAXIMUM current that a conductor can carry CONTINOUSLY under the conditions of use without exceeding its temperature rating. Current is measured in amperes or “amps”. You must use the correct size wire for the current (load) requirement of the circuit to prevent the wire from overheating.
• The number and type of electrical devices connected to a circuit determine the ampacity requirement of the conductor. Usually, a general purpose house circuit is designed for 20 amps. Lighting circuits may be designed for only 15 amps

Copper wire, either THW or THHN is rated at the following capacities @ 75 degrees C........


AWG 6 -------> 65
AWG 4 -------> 85

These are MAXIMUM current capacities that the copper conductor can carry CONTINUOUSLY without exceeding it's temperature rating. As I stated before, AWG 6 is more than adequate for the purpose intended in this post as long as the run is 100 feet or less. The circuit will be carrying 48 amps......the 60 amp circuit breaker is a SAFETY device and will trip if for some unknown reason the current reaches 60 amps, but the conductor is CLEARLY capable of carrying 65 amps CONTINUOUSLY. AWG 4 is NOT needed unless the run is much farther than 100 feet and only needed because of voltage drop, not current carrying capacity. Please don't try to misinform people about something you obviously know very little about.

 

[ajdelange]

In respond to your: 2)Wall charger with NEMA 14-50R plug. Charge rate: 40A. How do you get this rate as the only way to get 40A is from older first generation of UMC?

This refers to the corded "HPWC" that seems to go on and off the Tesla store. It is an HPWC without the flexible terminals and, in their place, a line cord with a 14-50P. The current selector switch is set to the 40 A position.

I am think should I order an used Model X that has 60Amp on board charger.

Whatever you ultimately decide to do you should consult with an electrician who has installed HPWCs in your jurisdiction. He will know the code requirements and will be able to understand the limitations in your installed panel(s), your service etc. He can then discuss with you your various options.

 

[mxnym]

I have no idea where your information is coming from, but to be succinct, it is wrong.

• Ampacity is the MAXIMUM current that a conductor can carry CONTINOUSLY under the conditions of use without exceeding its temperature rating. Current is measured in amperes or “amps”. You must use the correct size wire for the current (load) requirement of the circuit to prevent the wire from overheating.
• The number and type of electrical devices connected to a circuit determine the ampacity requirement of the conductor. Usually, a general purpose house circuit is designed for 20 amps. Lighting circuits may be designed for only 15 amps

Copper wire, either THW or THHN is rated at the following capacities @ 75 degrees C........


AWG 6 -------> 65
AWG 4 -------> 85

These are MAXIMUM current capacities that the copper conductor can carry CONTINUOUSLY without exceeding it's temperature rating. As I stated before, AWG 6 is more than adequate for the purpose intended in this post as long as the run is 100 feet or less. The circuit will be carrying 48 amps......the 60 amp circuit breaker is a SAFETY device and will trip if for some unknown reason the current reaches 60 amps, but the conductor is CLEARLY capable of carrying 65 amps CONTINUOUSLY. AWG 4 is NOT needed unless the run is much farther than 100 feet and only needed because of voltage drop, not current carrying capacity. Please don't try to misinform people about something you obviously know very little about.

You are correct that my numbers were inaccurate; wrong from memory. However, I also misread your post, and my premise on the OCPD to which the wire must match was what I felt important and overlooked. After re-reading your post, it wasn't overlooked and did not need to be corrected. My apologies.

 

[ajdelange]

I think there is some confusion about continuous and intermittent loads here. The breaker is sized to protect the wiring. The wiring is rated dependent on the temperature of the environment, its insulation rating, the temperature rating of the breaker, how the wire is run (e.g. up to 3 current carrying conductors in a conduit or cable) and the run length (you must go to a larger size if the run is longer not because of heating concerns but because of voltage drop considerations). Tables are found in the NEC, Ugly's etc. If the load is expected to endure for less than 2 hrs it is considered intermittent and you can take 100 amperes from a 100 ampere breaker protecting wire that is rated for 100 amperes (or more). But as you may be charging your Tesla for more than 2 hours the load is considered continuous and you must derate by 20%. Thus an HPWC behind a 100 Amp breaker must be set for 80% of 100 amps i.e. 80 amps. Note also that it's not a matter of whether or not you actually charge for two hours or less. Per the NEC EVCE is, by definition, a continuous load, and the 80% factor must be used.

 

[Rocky_H]

The post December production Model X have a dual charger. Prior to that they had a triple charger. By this I mean that the rectifier unit has/had slots for three modules (circuit boards) rated at 24 amps each and all the slots were populated and enabled.

No. Don't do that. Do not misuse terminology that Tesla has already defined. That term of "dual charger" already had a specific meaning and applies to Model S cars up to 2016, when they had either 40A or 80A capability. They went to a different naming with the low power and high power charger when they switched to that 48A and 72A era.

If you install an 80 A breaker the installer must set your HPWC to 60A max.

64 amps

 

[BrokerDon]

Another aspect of it is that once you get larger than No. 6 it is:

1. really hard to pull and so your labor cost (or aggravation level) will go up dramatically
2. NEC requires a lockable disconnect if the breaker is bigger than 60A.

There is clearly a trade space here.

Exactly why we had an electrician install a 60A (not 100A) breaker and #6 wire for the 8' run from the Signature Tesla Wall Connector to the main service panel. Their county building department's "expedited" EV permit process only applies to <= 60A breaker... and their M3 LR AWD can only charge at 48A max anyway (80% of 60A = 48A). No lockable disconnect required.

Best thing about the installation in their brand new Lennar SoCal home is current building code requires the builder to install a 1" conduit from the exterior wall mounted main service panel to an empty double gang junction box inside the garage for future EV charging. Made installing the Tesla Wall Connector a breeze requiring one 90º pull to one ~ 4' EMT with 3 small bends to the Tesla Wall Connector. No knockouts to remove or drilling inside the main service panel and no wallboard to remove / reinstall. EASY.

 

[ajdelange]

64 amps

Quite right. Or, to be more precise, he must set the rotary switch to position B (or lower) which limits current to 64 amps (or less)

 

[jboy210]

Great Tesla car has one charger port only can do both AC and DC current. Better than Leaf.
I plan to run 80A breaker to HPWC charger which is what recommended. With the new model X car it only has 48 Amp charger on board. If I need a quick charge between couple hours,I would not be able to charge higher than 48 Amp? So there is not point to run bigger wires rated for 80A breaker since the car can only handle 48A for the HPWC. I am thinking wires rated 60 Amp breaker should be enough. Let me know if this is correct.

60 Amp is suggested max breaker for HPWC since car can only do 48 A. 0.80 will go to car (0.8 X 60) = 48A

Here is Tesla latest recommendations:

Silver Wall Connector (scroll down to installation)

Only reason to go over 60 A is for multiple vehicles.

 

[ajdelange]

Yes, you can be sure you will never need more than 48A because Tesla never changes its mind about anything.

A conversation I had about 20 minutes ago:

Clerk at Pharmacy: Love your hat. Do you have a Tesla?
Your Correspondent: Yes, love it. Do you?
Clerk at Pharmacy:Yes, we have a 3.
Your Correspondent: When did you get it?
Clerk at Pharmacy: Last April
Your Correspondent: Wow. How did you get one so early?
Clerk at Pharmacy: My husband is the manager of the Tyson's store.
Your Correspondent: Does he still have a job?
Clerk at Pharmacy: We don't know!

 

[jboy210]

Yes, you can be sure you will never need more than 48A because Tesla never changes its mind about anything.

Given previous trajectories, if Tesla changes their mind it is more likely to a max of 40 or 32 A. The formula seems to be:

max_recommended_Amps = min(all jurisdictions EV permit upper limit)

 

[MrTeaUSA]

I just put a deposit down for Inventory car with high power 2 charger (upto 72amp on 90amp breaker) on HPWC that rated 80 Amp capable. The car is 2018 model X and confirm it has 72 amp charge on board. So this way I have an option to charge at higher amp using HPWC if I need to for a quick charge. After all the work of paying installer and expense of the HPWC wall charger, I expected to be able to charge to maximum rated on the HPWC of 80 amp like a destination charger. If I can only able to charge for 48 amp, I would not bother buying the HPWC at all. I would just use the NEMA 14-50R plug that will charger upto 32 amp to 40 amp depends on your wiring.

 

[ajdelange]

The modules are 24A each. Thus if you have the two module charger you can draw 48 A requiring a 60 A breaker. If you have a 3 module charger it is capable of 72 A but requires a 90 A breaker. If installed behind an 80 A breaker the HPWC must be set for a maximum of 64 A. The HPWC is capable of allocating demand between itself and up to 3 other HPWC's of up to 80 A if installed behind a 100 A breaker.

I am more interested, though, in how you got the high power charge option. Is this car a pre December 2018 build?

 

[MrTeaUSA]

Thanks for the correction of the 72 amp charger on board instead of 64 amp. It was my typo, that's why I have 90 amp breaker. I was told all model X built before 12/2018 has this option. The web site does not show that option but if you call sales advisor, they will know.

 

[DCGOO]

....but if you call sales advisor, they will know.

That is a bit of an oxymoron, dontcha think?

 

[MrTeaUSA]

Check this article out regarding charging ampere. https://electrek.co/2018/10/11/tesla-launches-new-gloss-black-wall-connector/
I just purchase one of this HPWC Signature Version for $490 plus shipping.

 

[ajdelange]

That article was written in October 2018. No one knew at that time that Tesla was going to put a two module charger in all X's after December of that year. Thus the requirement for a 90A breaker (to support 72A charging) is no longer relevant. A 60A breaker (to support 48A charging) is now adequate for the X unless, of course, you have a pre- 2019 build model.

 

[n8dagr8]

What was the logic for this change?

 

[MrTeaUSA]

Cut cost of course. That's why Tesla lower the price in January 2019 and now they want to raise back up. Luckily, I put deposit to the inventory car with all the options when the drop additional $10k. I just finished install the sub panel to garage (50ft) for 100 amp breaker using 2 gauges wire in conduit. Then I install HPWC with 90 amp breaker using 3 gauges to the sub panel about 5 feet.

 

[mxnym]

While cut cost is technically accurate, since they charged more for the higher amperage charging option, the way they are cutting cost is by simplifying production. Only having one charger for all vehicles is simpler than having to pick the right one for install in each vehicle as it comes down the line.

 

[kevindamen]

Seems like a bad decision

is it able to be installed after market by the tesla service centers?