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2023.6.x

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..... I can’t see them turning off the sensors for some time
In one of the missives I recieved from Tesla Customer Abuse they said it was '...important to treat all customers equally..."

If they can't replace the USS functionality on cars not supplied with this hardware, I guess one way for them to achieve this laudable aim is to switch off the sensors for everyone else ;)
 
When they turned off radar I didn’t notice any significant difference in performance (no more than the usual fluctuations between releases). There is no USS replacement so far other than a picture that might get used in the release notes if and when they decide to push it out, so I can’t see them turning off the sensors for some time
well, I actually noticed. These are things what I noticed:

- Start/stop acceleration on TACC is a bit more janky - it accelerates after the delay and harsher, and reacts to stops slower/harsher - negative change
- follow distance minimum is "2" instead of "1" - meaning you leave bigger gap, especially important in traffic situations- negative change
- max speed for AP is 85 instead of 90. Germany anyone?- negative change
- collision avoidance beeps much more often, especially when cars are parked on T-junction or side of the road.- negative change
- On the plus side (i guess) - phantom braking looks like gone. but car brakes harsher when other car jumps in your lane.. so dunno how to react about this.
 
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Agreed.

Common sense.

It's not like the company would delete USS hardware from cars without there being a viable, tried and tested alternative....oh....bugger...hang on.....

I loved these headlamp washers and wipers, …hang on…they are all removed without any viable, tried and tested alternative - for some good reason because they are arachic and no place in modern cars and creates additional faults & maintanence issues. You still can have it if you want to as a modification - no one is stopping!

Btw, there are exceptions - Volvo XC 90 still has one - just like their 8 cameras, LiDar sensor and some 16-18 sensors for gauging movements on planet earth so that our earthlings can safely park!

Oops, I have made a promise to myself not to make fun of some of these folks but can’t stop it. Apologies @GeorgeSymonds
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I loved these headlamp washers and wipers, …hang on…they are all removed without any viable, tried and tested alternative - for some good reason because they are arachic and no place in modern cars and creates additional faults & maintanence issues. You still can have it if you want to as a modification - no one is stopping!.....

I assume that you are saying that USS are 'archaic and have no place on modern cars wibble wibble wibble'?

A rough calculation, but I have run 12 different USS equipped cars over the last many years and they have not thrown up a single fault or maintenance issue. I'm not saying it never happens, but in general, it is simple, reliable technology.

And WTF should I pay to have USS added as a modification when they were present on the car demo'd to me before placing my order and not once was a change in this specification mentioned to me by Tesla before, during or after delivery?
 
I'm mystified by my 2022 M3LR updates. The car says it's up to date, but the version on the car screen is 2022.44.30. And for several days the (iOS) app has been showing Update downloading 2023.2.12, but it's been stuck at 64% for days.

The last time I definitely installed an update was several weeks ago (can't remember when exactly). I have Standsrd updated selected.

I've tried rebooting the car several times, and the app, no change.

Can anyone suggest what's going on and how to fix it?
 
I loved these headlamp washers and wipers, …hang on…they are all removed without any viable, tried and tested alternative - for some good reason because they are arachic and no place in modern cars and creates additional faults & maintanence issues. You still can have it if you want to as a modification - no one is stopping!

Btw, there are exceptions - Volvo XC 90 still has one - just like their 8 cameras, LiDar sensor and some 16-18 sensors for gauging movements on planet earth so that our earthlings can safely park!

Oops, I have made a promise to myself not to make fun of some of these folks but can’t stop it. Apologies @GeorgeSymonds
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Actually the reason most of them were removed was because the technology caught on and gave us much brighter halogen, then Xenon, then LED headlights, that could finally provide more than enough light output.
Older ones were not able to provide sufficient luminosity when partly obscured by dirt, hence the wipers to keep them clean and 'road legal'...
So when a viable alternative was found they no longer had a purpose...
 
Actually the reason most of them were removed was because the technology caught on and gave us much brighter halogen, then Xenon, then LED headlights, that could finally provide more than enough light output.
Older ones were not able to provide sufficient luminosity when partly obscured by dirt, hence the wipers to keep them clean and 'road legal'...
So when a viable alternative was found they no longer had a purpose...
Exactly, I left it open so that people can see why USS/radar are not the way forward. The tech is moving in a different direction - Initially when halogen came in it wasn’t bright enough but still some of the bold car makers dropped the wipers and washers because of the amount of complex integration these wipers and washers needed. Then LEDs came in the last 10-13 years and made these wipers redundant but still some car makers like Volvo can’t invent or not bold enough to drop those washers.

Tesla is one of the early adapters of modern tech in cars, so you expect them to ditch few of the old tech - even if they are tried and tested - for new tech because that is their USP. At the moment no USS/sensors is like halogen bulbs without washers and wipers - not many car companies will do but Telsa will/can do - to reach the LED lights/matrix lights system what the modern car has. Unfortunately with the Tesla vision system you need more ‘uncluttered data’ that can be processed to create something more coherent. USS/radars are/were interfering in collecting those uncluttered data, so Tesla has no other choice other than to remove and collect these uncluttered data.
 
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The car says it's up to date, but the version on the car screen is 2022.44.30. And for several days the (iOS) app has been showing Update downloading 2023.2.12, but it's been stuck at 64% for days.

I have a recollection of downloads getting "stuck" in the past, but I can't remember if there was a remedy - I seem to recall that calling Tesla and them "pushing an update" was the only solution that solved it ... but maybe others can remember if there was a "Reboot" type option
 
Exactly, I left it open so that people can see why USS/radar are not the way forward. The tech is moving in a different direction - Initially when halogen came in it wasn’t bright enough but still some of the bold car makers dropped the wipers and washers because of the amount of complex integration these wipers and washers needed. Then LEDs came in the last 10-13 years and made these wipers redundant but still some car makers like Volvo can’t invent or not bold enough to drop those washers.

Tesla is one of the early adapters of modern tech in cars, so you expect them to ditch few of the old tech - even if they are tried and tested - for new tech because that is their USP. At the moment no USS/sensors is like halogen bulbs without washers and wipers - not many car companies will do but Telsa will/can do - to reach the LED lights/matrix lights system what the modern car has. Unfortunately with the Tesla vision system you need more ‘uncluttered data’ that can be processed to create something more coherent. USS/radars are/were interfering in collecting those uncluttered data, so Tesla has no other choice other than to remove and collect these uncluttered data.
yeah right.

that's why they removed uss but have not added ANYTHING to replace it. Yet. Just because.

and also, Radar is not the way forward. And that is exactly the same reason why they are adding high resolution radars back.

makes sense. really..
 
I have a recollection of downloads getting "stuck" in the past, but I can't remember if there was a remedy - I seem to recall that calling Tesla and them "pushing an update" was the only solution that solved it ... but maybe others can remember if there was a "Reboot" type option
I'm mystified by my 2022 M3LR updates. The car says it's up to date, but the version on the car screen is 2022.44.30. And for several days the (iOS) app has been showing Update downloading 2023.2.12, but it's been stuck at 64% for days.

The last time I definitely installed an update was several weeks ago (can't remember when exactly). I have Standsrd updated selected.

I've tried rebooting the car several times, and the app, no change.

Can anyone suggest what's going on and how to fix it?
I had the same problem with this update. For hours not days.

I just reset the phone, wifi connections, car and the modem. Restarted everything and then a fresh download happened. It just finished took unusually long time of around 6hrs. But all fixed now.
 
I'm mystified by my 2022 M3LR updates. The car says it's up to date, but the version on the car screen is 2022.44.30. And for several days the (iOS) app has been showing Update downloading 2023.2.12, but it's been stuck at 64% for days.

The last time I definitely installed an update was several weeks ago (can't remember when exactly). I have Standsrd updated selected.

I've tried rebooting the car several times, and the app, no change.

Can anyone suggest what's going on and how to fix it?
Being stuck for days isn’t right. It’s lost connection to that server by the sound of it. Ring an SC. They should be able to point you in the right direction
 
Exactly, I left it open so that people can see why USS/radar are not the way forward. The tech is moving in a different direction - Initially when halogen came in it wasn’t bright enough but still some of the bold car makers dropped the wipers and washers because of the amount of complex integration these wipers and washers needed. Then LEDs came in the last 10-13 years and made these wipers redundant but still some car makers like Volvo can’t invent or not bold enough to drop those washers.

Tesla is one of the early adapters of modern tech in cars, so you expect them to ditch few of the old tech - even if they are tried and tested - for new tech because that is their USP. At the moment no USS/sensors is like halogen bulbs without washers and wipers - not many car companies will do but Telsa will/can do - to reach the LED lights/matrix lights system what the modern car has. Unfortunately with the Tesla vision system you need more ‘uncluttered data’ that can be processed to create something more coherent. USS/radars are/were interfering in collecting those uncluttered data, so Tesla has no other choice other than to remove and collect these uncluttered data.
That's where I don't agree with your conclusion. I'm a tech enthusiast also but, as a safety equipment, a radar or lidar has the ability to detect obstacles. A camera does not. There is an overreliance on AI interpretation from a sensor than can only get 2D, flat images and get with an accuracy necessarily lower than 100% that 'this cluster of pixels' is an object in the way.

Why are iPhones Pro equipped with a Lidar for photography since a couple of generations? Because that is the only way to sense depth. Otherwise, Apple would gladly do without an expensive sensor part in their COGS. And yet they are leaders in computational photography and couldn't get to a better solution with pure software.

When it was just to replace a $2 rain sensor, it was a minor inconvenience, but now, putting your faith on FSD with that?
As the person in the car, with his life on the line, I'd rather have multiple sensors that each confront their information, than one saying 'well, I'm not sure because I don't have a certain way of knowing if there is an obstacle ahead but it's probably fine based on my training data'...

Keeping USS and Radar was the safest choice. It was not driven by the ability to do better with Vision, but simply to reduce costs in the short-term, at the expense of end-user safety. Otherwise, they would have kept the hardware as a failsafe and developed Vision in parallel.

The reintroduction of an HD Radar in HW4 is an admission of fault. We'll see how long it takes before USS goes the same way.
 
yeah right.

that's why they removed uss but have not added ANYTHING to replace it. Yet. Just because.

and also, Radar is not the way forward. And that is exactly the same reason why they are adding high resolution radars back.

makes sense. really..
We all know about ‘iPhone - antenna gate’ - it is not they were not aware that iphone would lose the ability to make phone calls when you bury or blend the antenna in a metal and glass shell. ‘Real world’ tech functioning is different and they had real world feedback and have improved it dramatically in their next iteration.
 
We all know about ‘iPhone - antenna gate’ - it is not they were not aware that iphone would lose the ability to make phone calls when you bury or blend the antenna in a metal and glass shell. ‘Real world’ tech functioning is different and they had real world feedback and have improved it dramatically in their next iteration.
yes, that's why Radar is not the technology to go forward and precisely that's why radars are back on HW4.

makes sense
 
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I'm mystified by my 2022 M3LR updates. The car says it's up to date, but the version on the car screen is 2022.44.30. And for several days the (iOS) app has been showing Update downloading 2023.2.12, but it's been stuck at 64% for days.

The last time I definitely installed an update was several weeks ago (can't remember when exactly). I have Standsrd updated selected.

I've tried rebooting the car several times, and the app, no change.

Can anyone suggest what's going on and how to fix it?
You can go into service mode and request the update again, saving wasting your life trying to contact Tesla.
 
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In one of the missives I recieved from Tesla Customer Abuse they said it was '...important to treat all customers equally..."

If they can't replace the USS functionality on cars not supplied with this hardware, I guess one way for them to achieve this laudable aim is to switch off the sensors for everyone else ;)
Tesla customer service are usually the last to know anything useful, they appear to make stuff up at will. But well done for finding a person to actually talk to,