2023 Model Y no USS discussion, incl. Discussion of Tesla Vision Firmware

[motomike]

This is a reason why I did not place the order yet as car is missing a core equipment which was there and is not there anymore.
People can say I do not need USS as they drove different type of cars for past 20y without any parking aid, cameras and never hit anything. Sure, but based on your short experience is not only parking aid but all other system that rely on cameras now. In bad weather condition, fog, snow and so on may not work correctly, any collision detection based only on camera view will be a single point of failure IMO ? And getting out every while to clean them is as step forward or backwards ?

 

[Flemingo]

This is a reason why I did not place the order yet as car is missing a core equipment which was there and is not there anymore.
People can say I do not need USS as they drove different type of cars for past 20y without any parking aid, cameras and never hit anything. Sure, but based on your short experience is not only parking aid but all other system that rely on cameras now. In bad weather condition, fog, snow and so on may not work correctly, any collision detection based only on camera view will be a single point of failure IMO ? And getting out every while to clean them is as step forward or backwards ?

Given my experience, I regret taking delivery but I did not known how deficient the camera system is. I do not believe Tesla can fix this with software alone, and will have to revert back to cars with hardware assist. I would not buy a non-USS car right now.

 

[motomike]

Most of the conversation is around lack of USS which should be a not a deal breaker but I think there is not much about how removal of USS affected other systems, maybe I did not dive deep into this but I did not see much conversation beside parking aid issue atm ?
I think camera only vision system with AI behind can fail in many occasion. In perfect testing environment maybe work like a charm but there could be a lot of factors that can influence how the system response in different scenario.
I guess SW will fix it in some way but if there will be a need for HW retrofit, do you think it will be done for these shipped and delivered in that transition period ? Fingers crossed

 

[ny888]

Vision replacement without USS?

 

[Flemingo]

Most of the conversation is around lack of USS which should be a not a deal breaker but I think there is not much about how removal of USS affected other systems, maybe I did not dive deep into this but I did not see much conversation beside parking aid issue atm ?
I think camera only vision system with AI behind can fail in many occasion. In perfect testing environment maybe work like a charm but there could be a lot of factors that can influence how the system response in different scenario.
I guess SW will fix it in some way but if there will be a need for HW retrofit, do you think it will be done for these shipped and delivered in that transition period ? Fingers crossed

Nope. Once they have your money they really don’t care about you.

 

[jeewee3000]

Vision replacement without USS?

Interesting. Should be weeks away instead of months, then?

 

[Arrosto]

Nope. Once they have your money they really don’t care about you.

I unfortunately agree.
No service.
No support.
Don't care about existing clients.

That's probably part of the Tesla selling model ... sell and forget.

 

[Arrosto]

Interesting. Should be weeks away instead of months, then?

The Vision "USS-emulation" (that's my naming of that ) is already live since many weeks.
It is being tested on USS vehicles to perform benchmarking (USS vs Vision) for distances and accuracy.
It is also being used as a backup system for USS Teslas: when USS doesn't work (dirty bumper, not working, etc.), Vision takes place and does the job.

Once they will reach a reasonable parity in benchmarks, they will release it for all vehicles and (my thought), disabling USS on all existing, to have a single software strategy (=reduce development and maintenance costs).
And for USS equipped Tesla owners, it will be perceived as a step back, in my opinion.

The Vision only system already works, it's a matter of tuning and it is being tested in real life with real owners on real streets and situations.

For the blind spot in front ... I'm not so worried that much ... it would be a problem only for (very) low obstacles that move in front of the vehicle that has been stopped unattended for awhile, except if the front camera will just keep watching and calculating moving targets that go into the "blind zone" and eventually moving away.
That's actually not so difficult ... Sentry already monitors 24h a day ... so what's the point in keeping just the front camera watching (if sentry is disabled)?

After having seen real video of Vision correctly measuring distances, I just can't wait for it....

 

[motomike]

Interesting. Should be weeks away instead of months, then?

If you guarantee I will place my order today
I saw this already, again more around parking aid, nice weather outside but how this will work with poor visibility conditions when on a road ?

 

[Arrosto]

If you guarantee I will place my order today
I saw this already, again more around parking aid, nice weather outside but how this will work with poor visibility conditions when on a road ?

That's the point ... with blinded camera, no joy.
But with snow on the bumpers ... USS stop working, too.

With my previous Volvo V60, the USS started to work bad on front right during heavy raining ... there's no perfection.

 

[lowtek]

Nope. Once they have your money they really don’t care about you.

Yep, like any big company. If you think company "X" cares about you, you're buying in to their marketing. Big company "caring" is a calculated tactical decision, not actual caring. Until Tesla has competition they have no reason to change the way they decide to do things. Eventually, it will catch up to them ... If you want real caring, buy from small private companies when you can.

 

[zoomer0056]

The Vision "USS-emulation" (that's my naming of that )

New acronym: USSE. Say youzee.

 

[Arrosto]

From another discussion about HW4, new camera (???) spotted in a M3, that could cover the "blind spot" in the front.
Unless this is something else ...

 

[James-R10]

From another discussion about HW4, new camera (???) spotted in a M3, that could cover the "blind spot" in the front.
Unless this is something else ...

It was found to be how the bonnet cover was clipped on

 

[E46M3]

But in case something gets in front of the bumper during a maneuver ( dog, cat, baby ... ) and having this 3ft blind spot in front of the hood without any support from USS or radar will not notify you and you will not know that there is an obstacle and car should be stopped ?

yeah, I guess so but I can also think of dozen of other ways that a baby/animal can get outside of the USS range. Does Tesla really want to fix that 0.0001% or whatever that is? It's similar to the airline safety updates right? If paying for lost lifes is cheaper than making an update, airlines will always pick the prior.

 

[Zedbox]

Today
I actively decided not to drive my MYP as it would be to much hassle compared to a ice car with parking sensors.

 

[Flemingo]

yeah, I guess so but I can also think of dozen of other ways that a baby/animal can get outside of the USS range. Does Tesla really want to fix that 0.0001% or whatever that is? It's similar to the airline safety updates right? If paying for lost lifes is cheaper than making an update, airlines will always pick the prior.

Thankfully air travel has regulators that make sure manufacturers deliver on promises.

 

[Zedbox]

Thankfully air travel has regulators that make sure manufacturers deliver on promises.

Wouldn’t worry musk has alienated most of his current customer base.
Won’t be long till he has sold up and moved on.

 

[Zedbox]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1619889507133976580

 

[jenimolly]

I have a 2023 Y without sensors. If I purchase EAP will Smart Summon work? How about auto park?