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2023 Model Y no USS discussion, incl. Discussion of Tesla Vision Firmware

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Phantom braking in most cases is for the most part rare if at all. This issue like many was dialed in via updates. Seems like even your test drive had similar result. The sensor removal has also been transitioned to camera and the updates seem to be eliminating that non concern. As I advise anyone seriously considering this car or Any, avoid forums if possible as few of the millions write how amazing the product is while some (and some with an agenda) will pile on a forum with doom and gloom. Often not a good review of the product.
Yelobird, agree with some of your views and experience, however having paid £6400 for EAP and FSD, which included in the contract all parking features, not getting them at the point of sale, I think any reasonable person would feel ripped off. I have unfortunately had a very poor experience after ordering the vehicle, I was notified to settle the account £67k and later informed that it was a mistake and had to wait three weeks to get my money back, then the car was delivered two days before Christmas no flexibility, take it or leave it, so I had to return from a family Christmas break from Nottingham to pick the car up from Brent Cross. The collection was cattle class had an eleven o'clock appointment waited outside the Tesla office (shed) got absolutely soaking wet, then roamed the massive car park to try and find the car in a 500 plus parking lot, soaked to the skin, then no parking features..... hardly believe I have an agenda or believe its doom and gloom.

Yes the car has many great features, fast charging, very good on watts per miles, but rather Tesla concentrates and delivers contracted features and eliminate phantom braking and useless auto window wipers that come on with no rain rather than games and fart features. Removing radar and USS and rain sensors was the biggest mistake Mr Elon has lost the Tesla Vision and loosing customers.
 
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AJ, I have come to the conclusion Tesla don't give much credence to safety but go for saving a few pennies, sad as other EV are overtaking Tesla's lead. Tesla remains level two whilst Mercedes and Ford are at level three, wake wake Elon.
comparing internet blog posts and spec sheets doesn't make for real world comparisons.
you are only citing immaterial issues that cannot be objectively compared. As if 'rating agencies' are all the same.
hoping you have deep financial resources, and time, to pursue 'legal claims' against Tesla.
good luck
 
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Yelobird, agree with some of your views and experience, however having paid £6400 for EAP and FSD, which included in the contract all parking features, not getting them at the point of sale, I think any reasonable person would feel ripped off. I have unfortunately had a very poor experience after ordering the vehicle, I was notified to settle the account £67k and later informed that it was a mistake and had to wait three weeks to get my money back, then the car was delivered two days before Christmas no flexibility, take it or leave it, so I had to return from a family Christmas break from Nottingham to pick the car up from Brent Cross. The collection was cattle class had an eleven o'clock appointment waited outside the Tesla office (shed) got absolutely soaking wet, then roamed the massive car park to try and find the car in a 500 plus parking lot, soaked to the skin, then no parking features..... hardly believe I have an agenda or believe its doom and gloom.

Yes the car has many great features, fast charging, very good on watts per miles, but rather Tesla concentrates and delivers contracted features and eliminate phantom braking and useless auto window wipers that come on with no rain rather than games and fart features. Removing radar and USS and rain sensors was the biggest mistake Mr Elon has lost the Tesla Vision and loosing customers.
Post 106. Sorry again this bothers you so much. I’m sure they Made you walk around in the rain granted not sure how any of that is relevant. Cars are a personal choice, clearly this one is not yours. No worries they have millions of customers lined up behind you.
 
I've pulled the trigger and leased a Model Y Long Range. The Tesla MY was the best in terms of supercharger network, 4wd/power, economy, single pedal driving and availability, very quick delivery time.

I'm still PO'd about the lack of sensors, I think Tesla are genuinely misguided in their efforts to make a camera-only system. In my opinion it will never work reliably without LiDAR or radar (Waymo are streets ahead here)
But on balance, I still think the MY is an amazing vehicle and really excited to get it. I think I'll be buying the wireless front camera I've seen talked about in other threads though, and will be using adaptive cruise carefully.

I'm only leasing it so have no vested interest in residuals, dipping toe in carefully here. Hopefully Tesla will see the light and put hardware sensors back in on future models, TV can get better and better but it's always going to be better having a hardware sensor's second opinion before taking control.of the car.
 
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Both features are currently not available because they removed USS (ultrasonic sensors).

There is no estimated timeline to restore these function on cars without USS. It has been over 8 months since USS was removed from cars. There some rudimentary vision based park assist that sometimes works (inaccurately) that was released with an update to some cars a few months ago but I haven’t seen much development/improvement on vision based features since then.
 
Both features are currently not available because they removed USS (ultrasonic sensors).

There is no estimated timeline to restore these function on cars without USS. It has been over 8 months since USS was removed from cars. There some rudimentary vision based park assist that sometimes works (inaccurately) that was released with an update to some cars a few months ago but I haven’t seen much development/improvement on vision based features since then.
 
I've test driven the RWD and LR (both amazingly good) - upon returning to the Tesla dealer, I had to parallel park at the side of the showroom as it was rather busy - no problem, slotted it into a spot. In front of me was a pallet with a largeish box on it, I happened to notice that the car didn't beep or pick this up at all, so I slowly edged up to it but couldn't make the car detect it - upon querying this with the dealer, they informed me that the ultrasonic sensors had been removed on all current models (the resultant googling session brought me here among other places),
I then also learnt about phantom braking (I didn't use the cruise control on the test drives, but didn't have any issues in an hour of normal driving), Im still 95% sure I'm going to order, but it feels like the 2 biggest issues with the car are down to a few hundred quid's worth of sensors (radar/ultrasonic) - why are Tesla cheaping out on inexpensive sensors? My current car has radar and the adaptive cruise control is rock solid. I worked with image systems many years ago (DTVF) and the consistency was always horrible when faced with ambient light changes. Clearly the Tesla system is light years ahead, but I don't really believe a system that's not augmented with a radar is ever going to be truly reliable (the vision system should verify its findings with a secondary sensor for true reliability)

In your experience, if you lock on to a car in front and engage adaptive cruise, has anyone had phantom braking in this scenario? (My most loved use of cruise! Would hate to lose it), or is it just the normal speed limited cruising that has the PB events?
The car is so good that I'm happy to lose the USS sensors, but it's the radar for cruise control that I feel a bit prickly about losing.
Yes had phantom braking in roadworks triggered by gaps in the concrete safety wall - terrifying for me and I’m sure cars behind.

Personally I wouldn‘t buy a Tesla (again). I have never known a company to have so little consideration of its customers. Every promise is a lie. They are just as happy removing features that you have paid for as they are adding them.
 
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Flemingo, Thanks for your support, there are Tesla owners who have been very critical about my complaint, told if I cant park without sensors should not be driving, what's wrong with using cameras and my eyes. The price drop whilst disappointed I consider Tesla like buying shares, they can go up or down. Its a great car but miss park, park assist and summons which were key functions that I went for Tesla and not Kia or Polestar, albeit they do park very accurately.
I will give it until September of this year then I will instigate a legal claim as when I went to cancel the vehicle, I was assured in writing that the parking functions would be disabled only for a short period of time and restored by the new year 23. I have legal cover and have been advise to wait at least six month before initiating a claim, I am also in discussion with Trading Standards as they have picked up that ETA is still being advertised, although not available at point of sale.
Its a shame as I love my Y, but without accurate parking and summons to get out of tight parking spots when others parked too close, I will be a one time buyer. I was looking at getting a model 3 as a second car for the wife but as I lost faith in Tesla went for the Fiat 500 La Prima electric, great car and yes no fantom braking and has USS. Like you I am often asked by friends and family, I point out the Tesla experience and not getting functions that have been contracted and paid. good car but paid lots of money and did not get what I ordered, so two have opted for the Kia, one for the Polestar and one for Hyundai, that's a loss of £240k. Sadly dear Elon has been distracted and Tesla is now ranking in seventh place with Mercedes, Ford and Kia having shot past Tesla and Ford now with level three, no need to keep hands on the steering, using cabin camera to monitor, Tesla has one too but its got some unwanted negative publicity with privacy by sharing private footage of owners without consent.

I will keep you posted.
Let me know when you go legal. Will join you…
 
Yeah surprised it's been so long since USS removal and still no park assist or summon implementations. If it makes you feel any better, Tesla can't actually recognize all the revenue for EAP purchases until they implement this, so they are motivated to get it to work as well. They have your cash but they don't really have it as revenue yet.
 
My impression with Tesla vision (v.2023.12.300) is that it is working much better than anticipated. Now, I did drive a 2022 MYLR with USS before I got this one, and it had a slightly better distance determination. The main difference is in the front direction were the current car seems to think that objects are closer than what they are. For the side and back sensors, distance determination seems to be spot on. Plus it has a resolution that shows smaller objects.

As for low sunlight and white surfaces, I haven't experienced the problem yet. But I know (from the 2022 model) that low sunlight can obscure cameras. It simply overloads the sensor, and it's not so hard to understand since the CMOS camera sensors are sensitive to sunlight. You can do some filtering to improve it, but that usually results in poor image quality since the light you are trying to see is the reflected light from the same sun.. :p

A better solution would be (for Tesla) to use mid-infrared cameras that sense IR light around 2.5um wavelength. In that wavelength you don't have the sun to worry about, and the thermal background (from Earth) emits about the same. But for now, those cameras are way too expensive. Think hardware version 7 or something. ;-P

As for whitewashed surfaces, a low-cost non-moving infrared laser with a diffracting lens would solve the problem. It would not be visible for the human eye, but cameras would see it. You can buy that for like $2 on aliexpress, so not a very costly solution.

Not really like this: Raveparty
 
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Hi all, I have a standard range Model Y on order. Gets delivered in 2 weeks. Appears to be Austin build (A149729), which from everything that I've read seems to mean HW4. I got a notice in the Tesla App that I had to confirm delivery with features reduced/limited and software in the coming weeks. Yeah, I've heard that before about Tesla.

I've read horror stories about Tesla Vision and Park Assist. I have to park this on the street, mostly parallel parking it. I am thinking of canceling my res if that is the case. Yes, I can park without parking sensors, but I live in Seattle, and once the sun sets at 5pm and it's raining for 6 months this becomes a lot harder without parking sensors that are pretty much standard on most cars.

Is Park Assist with Tesla Vision as bad as I'm reading?
 
Hi all, I have a standard range Model Y on order. Gets delivered in 2 weeks. Appears to be Austin build (A149729), which from everything that I've read seems to mean HW4. I got a notice in the Tesla App that I had to confirm delivery with features reduced/limited and software in the coming weeks. Yeah, I've heard that before about Tesla.

I've read horror stories about Tesla Vision and Park Assist. I have to park this on the street, mostly parallel parking it. I am thinking of canceling my res if that is the case. Yes, I can park without parking sensors, but I live in Seattle, and once the sun sets at 5pm and it's raining for 6 months this becomes a lot harder without parking sensors that are pretty much standard on most cars.

Is Park Assist with Tesla Vision as bad as I'm reading?
I have a Fremont build 2023 Model Y with Tesla Vision visual parking. I get a visual display that works for me. The car doesn’t have auto park. I also have a 2018 Model 3 with Tesla Vision even though it has ultrasonic sensors and radar. The visual display there also works for me but I haven’t used it for parking. Even with the original sensors, auto park never worked well enough for me.

So, if you mean auto park for Park Assist, it isn’t much of a loss IMHO. If you mean a visual display with distance markings, it works well enough.
 
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>> Is Park Assist with Tesla Vision as bad as I'm reading?

I think it's next to useless, I would never rely on it - [it will _never_ be truly reliable either, not in comparison to some cheap USS]
Utterly stupid decision by Tesla to remove them.

In terms of rejecting the car - you pays your money, you takes your choice...

(I decided to continue with order process, but they weren't important enough for me to worry about - the missing radar irked me more, but again not a deal breaker - just more cheap crapness from Tesla - they will abso-definite-lutely back-pedal on all of this in the future and reinstate radar/USS, any savings they've made in hardware will be written off by the lost orders, bad PR and constant revisions needed to the TV code [which will never-ever work reliably] - but when is anyone's guess)
 
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