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240 in the garage. cost?

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,271
7,326
Boise, ID
All the above are quoted straight off the site, and show the Model Y and other models, if you read above. :)
I read all of that stuff you pasted from the site. They were just unrelated to your earlier things you said I disagreed with. Where's your citation for instance for your saying that his Model Y will be able to use 80A?
 

zecar

Member
Nov 30, 2017
406
272
Chicago
By "Tesla's site" I think he means the old forum.

If you have central AC you will likely need to upgrade your 100 amp service to 200. If you plan to stay in the house long term put a 100 amp panel in the garage. The most the model Y can charge at is 48amp on a 60 amp circuit using a wall connector.
 

hopmix

Member
Mar 29, 2021
55
42
Bay Area
The OP ought to just hire an electrician to evaluate his existing power source and offer options on the best way forward for EV charging requirements. Always amazes me that people will spend $50-60K on an EV and then sweat paying an electrician several hundred bucks to make sure their power source can handle the increased load.
lol..here in California upgrading your service to 200 amps is going to cost you a few thousand once you've paid labor, parts,pulled permits, and inspection.
 

Gauss Guzzler

Member
Dec 27, 2020
209
260
Thousand Oaks, California
As long as you have room or can make room for a double pole breaker your 100A main is likely fine and it's completely normal to have the branch circuit breakers add up to way more than the main. If your electrician or inspector insists that a 50A breaker will be a code violation you can step down as low as 30A with the wire you already have, but if you go below 40A you'll need a 14-30 instead of 14-50.

Don't sweat it and don't get sucked in by all the electricians (and TMC posters) who insist that a bigger panel is somehow better. If you get this all done and you're tripping the main just lower your charge current a little, you can set it to whatever you want. If that proves unsatisfactory *then* you can upgrade the panel. But really, the charger only uses 32A at max power, it's not some huge load that's going to overwhelm your electrical system, it's more like installing a second oven.
 

zpaul

Member
Apr 23, 2021
139
75
Maryland
50 feet of wire, 50a breaker, 14-50 outlet + work - $1,000
getting:
- $300 rebate fom utility
- $280 rebate from state
- $300 federal credit
for $120 it make sense to install.
for $1000 it make sense to put these $$$ towards supercharger when needed and use 110 outlet. I drive about 60 miles a day. More on weekends.
I see no point paying another $500 for shiny box from Tesla, I am ok with $36 adapter
 
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Apr 7, 2021
553
241
Inland Empire, California

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
The outlet and adapter approach certainly can save money, and still charge plenty fast, but there are some advantages to the Wall Charger that I like.

* It can be adjusted to run on any 240V circuit from 15 amp up to 60 amp as shown in the table below from the Gen 3 Installation Manual linked above

* Since the unit is hard wired and contains internal GFCI circuitry it does not require an external GFCI breaker.

* It does not require a receptacle to be installed, so there is no issue of having to match the proper receptacle to the circuit.

* No neutral wire is required, so basic 2 conductor with ground (cheaper) is adequate.

All this together means that if you install the WC with 6/2 wire you have a universal and future proof setup that can be served by any breaker your electrician determines is right for your load center. And if you make improvements in the future or rebalance your loads all that is necessary is to swap the WC breaker and reprogram its current draw.

Curiously, I also noticed that according to Tesla the use of an external disconnect switch is neither required nor recommended, even at 60 amps. (See Note below)

I can understand it not being required, but does anyone know why it is not recommended?


Screen Shot 2021-04-28 at 2.35.31 PM.png
 
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zecar

Member
Nov 30, 2017
406
272
Chicago
One nice advantage to the Tesla Wall Connector is that it can be adjusted to run on any circuit from 15 amp up to 60 amp as shown in the table below from the Gen 3 Installation Manual linked above

Also, since the unit is hard wired and contains internal GFCI circuitry it does not require an external GFCI breaker. It also does not require a receptacle to be installed, so there is no issue of having to match the proper receptacle to the circuit.

Curiously, I also noticed that according to Tesla the use of an external disconnect switch is neither required nor recommended, even at 60 amps. (See Note below)

I can understand it not being required, but does anyone know why it is not recommended?


View attachment 657779
Same reason you don't normally put a switch in front of any wifi client. The system is suppose to be on, regardless of charging activity. Put a switch next to the wall connector and some owners will feel good about turning it off when they don't expect to charge.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
The outlet and adapter approach certainly can save money, and still charge plenty fast, but there are some advantages to the Wall Charger that I like.

* It can be adjusted to run on any 240V circuit from 15 amp up to 60 amp as shown in the table below from the Gen 3 Installation Manual linked above

* Since the unit is hard wired and contains internal GFCI circuitry it does not require an external GFCI breaker.

* It does not require a receptacle to be installed, so there is no issue of having to match the proper receptacle to the circuit.

* No neutral wire is required, so basic 2 conductor with ground (cheaper) is adequate.

All this together means that if you install the WC with 6/2 wire you have a universal and future proof setup that can be served by any breaker your electrician determines is right for your load center. And if you make improvements in the future or rebalance your loads all that is necessary is to swap the WC breaker and reprogram its current draw.

Curiously, I also noticed that according to Tesla the use of an external disconnect switch is neither required nor recommended, even at 60 amps. (See Note below)

I can understand it not being required, but does anyone know why it is not recommended?


View attachment 657779
The reason that the Wall Connector does not require a GFCI circuit breaker is because the Wall Connector does not have a plug. The GFCI circuit breaker protects the user when plugging and unplugging the EVSE from the NEMA 14-50 receptacle. (The reason the GFCI is on the circuit breaker is that there is no NEMA 14-50 GFCI receptacle.) It is good practice to always turn off the power at the panel whenever plugging or unplugging any high power equipment such as an EVSE fitted with a 14-50 plug. The GFCI inside the Wall Connector (Mobile Connector too) is designed to protect the user when plugging the Tesla charging connector into the Tesla vehicle's charging port.)
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
Same reason you don't normally put a switch in front of any wifi client. The system is suppose to be on, regardless of charging activity. Put a switch next to the wall connector and some owners will feel good about turning it off when they don't expect to charge.
In some installations (i.e. where the service panel or sub panel is located out of direct line of sight from the Wall Connector) a service disconnect switch would usually be required to be installed near the Wall Connector. (When the electrical equipment such as an EVSE (i.e. the Tesla Mobile Connector) has a power plug a separate service disconnect is not required. The plug serves as the service disconnect.)
 
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zecar

Member
Nov 30, 2017
406
272
Chicago
In some installations (i.e. where the service panel or sub panel is located out of direct line of sight from the Wall Connector) a service disconnect switch would usually be required to be installed near the Wall Connector. (When the electrical equipment such as an EVSE (i.e. the Tesla Mobile Connector) has a power plug a separate service disconnect is not required. The plug serves as the service disconnect.)
Why would that be true for a wall connector and not other 240V appliances?
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
Why would that be true for a wall connector and not other 240V appliances?
It does apply to other 240V equipment depending on the circuit amperage. If you have a home with central air conditioning the A/C compressor, usually located on the side of the home, is always hard wired to the 240V circuit. There is a service disconnect box (really just a switch) located close to the compressor. The purpose of the service disconnect is to protect the HVAC technician from electrocution when the technician is servicing the A/C compressor. (The service disconnect switch ensures that the service technician has control of whether power is going to the A/C compressor regardless of whether someone inside the home flips on the circuit breaker at the panel.)

In installations where the service panel (or sub panel) and the Wall Connector (or any hard wired EVSE) are both located inside the garage the local code may not require a separate service disconnect since the technician has visual line of sight of the circuit breaker panel while installing or servicing the unit.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
All true, but not sure I follow how this addresses zecars question. Perhaps I misunderstood. In any event, can you think of a reason why the Wall Connector does not require a service disconnect according to Tesla? There is no mention of nearness to circuit breakers.

I was planning to add one personally, until I read that Tesla says they are not only not required, but not recommended. I’d feel safer with a disconnect near the device. Especially at 60 Amps.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
All true, but not sure I follow how this addresses zecars question. Perhaps I misunderstood. In any event, can you think of a reason why the Wall Connector does not require a service disconnect according to Tesla? There is no mention of nearness to circuit breakers.

I was planning to add one personally, until I read that Tesla says they are not only not required, but not recommended. I’d feel safer with a disconnect near the device. Especially at 60 Amps.
Are you talking about the requirement for a service disconnect or the requirement for a ground fault circuit interrupt (GCFI) circuit breaker? For the Wall Connector the local code would determine whether a service disconnect is required. Since the Wall Connector is designed to be hard wired, not use a plug, then there is no requirement for a separate GFCI. (I reviewed the Gen3 Wall Connector Manual. There is statement that no additional GFCI is required. I could not find any reference to whether a service disconnect is required. The requirement for a service disconnect is determined by local code.)
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
I am asking about the service disconnect.

Specifically, the statement from Tesla I posted above, "NOTE: External disconnect switches are neither required nor recommended", from the Gen 3 Wall Connector Installation manual. (See Post 28, last line)

Why do you suppose Tesla makes this universal statement that no service disconnect is required? This seems to be at odds with your statement that the requirement is determined by local code.
 
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jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
I am asking about the service disconnect.

Specifically, the statement from Tesla I posted above, "NOTE: External disconnect switches are neither required nor recommended", from the Gen 3 Wall Connector Installation manual. (See Post 28, last line)

Why do you suppose Tesla makes this universal statement that no service disconnect is required? Especially given, as you say, that it is a matter of local code?
I don't know specifically what Tesla means when the Gen3 Wall Connector Installation Manual refers to an external disconnect switch. (Technically a wall switch is an external disconnect switch.) A service disconnect is something every electrician is familiar with when installing equipment on a 240V circuit greater than 20A where the equipment is hard wired, i.e. does not use a plug. Perhaps it is time we ask an electrician. I don't how Tesla can just wave off the requirement for a service disconnect like using a Jedi mind trick.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
403
162
NJ
Exactly. To my mind "External Disconnect Switch" sounds like they are referring to a Service Disconnect like the kind installed for outdoor AC units (exactly as you described). I am very familiar with these. And I am surprised Tesla would say the are (1) Not required, and (2) Not recommended for the case of the Wall Connector. I felt this was significant and worth looking into further.

As someone mentioned above, the "not recommended" part could be due to not wanting to interrupt internet service to the unit. But surely they do not intend to recommend something that could be against code, right?
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
2,176
2,151
Maryland
Exactly. To my mind "External Disconnect Switch" sounds like they are referring to a Service Disconnect like the kind installed for outdoor AC units (exactly as you described). I am very familiar with these. And I am surprised Tesla would say the are (1) Not required, and (2) Not recommended for the case of the Wall Connector. I felt this was significant and worth looking into further.

As someone mentioned above, the "not recommended" part could be due to not wanting to interrupt internet service to the unit. But surely they do not intend to recommend something that could be against code, right?
Agreed. Tesla would not intentionally make any statements that are not code compliant. The code may have some leeway in this regard. The service disconnect is not intended as a convenience switch for the user. Only a qualified electrician or service technician should be working inside the equipment. The electrician or technician would normally be the one to turn off the power at the disconnect switch.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
6,271
7,326
Boise, ID
The NEC requirement is that if something is OVER 60A, then it always does require a lockable disconnect. For 60A and below, that is not required by NEC. But there are sometimes some state or local requirements for it for these lesser levels.
 
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